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MORE IN THIS SERIES : Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 4 | Part 5
TPE Theory: Getting Paid with Andrew Brokos (Part 3)
MORE IN THIS SERIES : Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 4 | Part 5
loxxii
26:30 I bet like 4799 or something like that on this river as it looks bluffy and calling doesn’t drop him below 20K. It’s a minor thing, but I think their are some villains who think this way.
Also would 76o or 76s be a value target in this hand on the flop? Some people may be more likely to float with the OESD than the second pair.
loxxii
30:00 That 87o hand just blew my mind. I would fold pre because Im not looking to play post flop with 20bbs effective. Especially with a hand that weak and OOP. Did you have a read that villain would be opening 20bbs light? That was awesome. I never even considered doing that.
loxxii
38:00 I considered betting super small like maybe even 100 on the flop and checking back the turn. I think this could give villain a chance to lead the river which gives us a chance to shove comfortably if we wanted to. The problem is I don’t know what we would want to shove besides an A or Q and if we are wrong then we are out. Maybe this line could work on a board with more possibilities.
Here, I like you line better because if the Q or A doesn’t hit the river, we can still bluff and be left with 15 bbs when we are wrong.
loxxii
42:00 After seeing the last hand, I dont like the line I proposed above because the last board had more possibilities and I stilled like the check, bet, big bet line better. I think it is robust and works excellent as a thin value bet when we made a marginal pair here and as a bluff had we missed the river on the last hand. In both instances, I think we want to leave some coming back chips behind in case we lose the pot. Awesome series.
Foucault
a) Good point about saving betting enough to leave him 20K.
b) Yeah I think it could be. If we’re talking about getting called by an 8, it’s essentially the same hand.
Foucault
“Im not looking to play post flop with 20bbs effective”. I don’t really understand what that means.
I don’t see why my default assumption would be that he’s only opening huge hands for a min-raise from the CO. He doesn’t have to be anywhere near as wide as he was to make this call profitable. I have 30% equity even if he only opens 10% of hands. The fact that you’re shallow should make you more inclined to think about hot and cold equity than post-flop playability, not less.
loxxii
My current mindset is that with 20bbs, I am looking for a spot to reshove pre so I dont want to call and play postflop with a speculative hand. I must be way off base here.
Also, I have learned that the average reg is not opening hands with 20bbs that they are not prepared to go with. I guess this is why you would call here instead of reshoving because you are likely to be called if you reshove.
Would you flat this hand if villain had 15bbs or 10bbs? Sounds like I am playing too tightly with 20bbs effective. This is opening my eyes.
sggirb
Lox i don’t think you’re the only one with that mindset, i know i’ve generally been playing the same way with 20bbs ie just folding or looking for reshove spots. I’m pretty sure also that i’ve picked that mindset up from watching other peoples videos on this site.
I would never have considered flatting the 87 there either but i really like how it was played and the reasoning above. I’ll definitely try experiment with flatting in spots like this in the future. All in all great series!
Foucault
Thanks for the clarification, lox and sg. I’d propose refining your thinking in this way:
With 20 or fewer bbs, shoving can still be your preferred course of action. In other words, if you believe, based on the range your opponent is opening, that a shove will be profitable, then go ahead and shove. If you decide not to shove, though, then consider calling and ch/shoving (occasionally, as here, getting even fancier) if you flop a pair or a draw. Considering that game plan, you’ll do best calling with hands that can flop a decent pair and/or draw, so 87o is a better calling hand than Q3o, and I rarely fold anything suited to a late position min-raise of my BB with such short stacks. As you get more comfortable playing post-flop in these kinds of spots, you may start to recognize other opportunities to call rather than jamming or folding.
A strictly jam/fold strategy plays straight into the hands of players who min-raise your blinds. By refusing to take advantage of the great pot odds they offer you on a call, you enable them to leverage 20BBs of your stack at a risk of just 2BBs of their own. You’ll see that I talk a lot about this when attempting my own steals.
As for whether to flat with 10 or 15 BBs, it mostly comes down to whether I expect to have room to ch/shove the flop with fold equity, since that’s mostly what I’m looking to do. With 10 BBs I wouldn’t expect to have such room. Also the shorter you get the more profitable your pre-flop shoves will be (since you’re risking less for the same reward), so it’s harder for calling to compete. But I’ll always consider calling as an option before I fold, because I always consider all of my options. I’m sure I’ve done it with 10 BBs before, though I don’t recall when or under what circumstances.
loxxii
RFB,
Something weird is going on with the comments here. The ones above are for a previous video. This one is meant for part 4.
45:00 QQ Last hand…
This is a spot where I want to try potting the flop. Instead of a target of just one hand, I would consider a target range. What types of hands does villains flat a 3bet with? Mainly broadways and small/medium pairs. Occasionally, big pairs as well.
I think a check raise looks stronger than just potting it on the flop. Potting looks like I am scared of the draws with something like Qx. I think it has a better chance of getting raised than a check raise getting 4bet. Also, because we bet so big, the number of chips going into the pot wont be too different from a check raise.
This is just something I have been thinking about away from the table. I haven’t tried it in practice yet.
RonFezBuddy
sorry about that, part 4 mistakenly overwrote part 3. That’s fixed. Part 4 is now up as its own post
jjpregler
Yeah, I think I agree with a smaller bet. If your value range is 8x, he pretty much only has a bluff catcher, so I think betting closer to 1/3 pot is better than 1/2 pot. A small stab looks more like a bluff IMO.
BadBeatFil
Great vid! Like RonFezBuddy said in the podcast: “mind blowing”
BionicApe
“Now with 30% less sexual deviancy”. Too funny.
Butch
Andrew, I am wondering about the action on the 87o hand around the 30min mark. I understand the call and the value target but, I wonder if with the flop action if villain ever has a set here. Doesn’t his shove indicate he’s got you a large percent of the time? Holding small pp and hitting set here would seem to be something villain could have played this way.