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October 6, 2010
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Ok guys, duggs and myself have done another hand history review, hope you like it
feel free to comment on both how badabing plays and on our reivew comments
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October 22, 2012
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thx for the review and thx for your thoughts guys! i really appreciate it!
over the last months i adapted a much more loose style and im still having big problems to adjust right and often get myself in trouble (oop spots, too many ep opens, too much of a station post, gettin lost in hands …)
most of your conclusions are spot on and i think it definetly will help me work to improve my game. ty
October 6, 2010
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any criticism on myself or tom in the review?
May 30, 2012
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*apart from bennys inability to count
October 6, 2010
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that was embarassing. i knew there was a reason why i put the BB stat on my hud lol
October 22, 2012
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bennymacca said:
any criticism on myself or tom in the review?
no not really, all in all it was really good and helps me,
you pointed out some leaks i already knew but you also showed me some mistakes that i hadnt been that aware of, there had only been a couple points where i have a different pov
i really got a lot out of it, ty guys
October 21, 2012
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Im only about 18 minutes into this vid and I can tell you I am learning more than I have learned in most of the pros videso I have watched. I may be wrong, but a big thing is they usually just value bet and tell you to do the same in spots where you guys are breaking down which hands we expect to call in a more detailed fashion. They are probably going faster in the interest of time where you guys will spend a long time on one hand. I think both approaches are good and this one is new to me. I like it so far. Are you in the same room? The audio quality is quite good as well.
October 21, 2012
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1. Around the 40 min mark, we get KhTc. I know we should cbet/fold this flop. My question is if we are shoving any heart, K, or T on the turn and just check folding everything else?
2. A few hands later we get AQo and 3bet shove. You suggest we 3bet smaller and play a pot oop vs a weak range of say small pairs, broadways, and a few suited connectors maybe. I think a lot of those hands are going to float us if an A doesn’t flop. Are we planning to barrel/get it in on most turns? Also, are we just shoving if we think this player is competent? I would hate for it to go cbet/float/check/bet/fold as it would on a number of boards given that a shove pre is profitable.
3. At 45 mins, we get AKo in the BB vs a limp from a 16bb stack. I agree we should shove pre, but what if he had 23-24bb? I assume we raise like 4-5bb and cbet most flops in which case it is similar to the AQo hand from above. These are the spots that I hate. Playing AK (or AQ) out of position with shallow stacks in spots where they always put you on AK.
4. Last hand. It's my understanding that QTs is never bad to shove from the button for 18bb. (I loved that bit of subtle comedy by the way.) I dont understand the idea of not wanting to run into the top of BB's range since it is included in the EV calc that proves QTs is a shove. If he is truly tight, then he is only going to call a small percentage of the time any way. (To me that sounds a bit like not shoving TT because he could have JJ-AA.) By trying to avoid that, you allow the SB to make a move like the one he made where he probably folds the K7s to a shove.
After watching the whole video, I can say that this is one of the best ones I have seen on the site. If this is what the amateurs who are just learning are doing, then the people who are not studying at all out there are screwed. A few years ago, the pros even not even thinking this deeply. Wow. Kudos you too.
October 21, 2012
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I sound like a fanboy so let me think of some criticism for you guys. One thing is I guess it was duggs was going on and on about a few hands and benny (I could have you guys mixed up) was ready to move on. Either work out a way to let him know when you are done in order to avoid the akwardness or just say something like “this is a good spot to widen your stfu range because i think they get it.” You seem to have a good rapport with each other and would understand that there is no ill will and it would add tremendously to the entertainment value of the vid. This is very important and it is a big reason why I love big dog's vids.
May 30, 2012
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hey loxxii thanks for the feedback, nope we arent in the same room, Benny is from Australia and I'm from New Zealand, which is why my accent is much sexier.
1/ is tough and kind of read dependent, i think jamming on Ax turns is going to be profitable. On K/10 turns i probably want to bet really small, on hearts i want to c/j, especially higher hearts the Ah or like Qh since we can get hands like 99h-55h to fold on that turn card.
2/ while that is true and occasionally we will whiff flop when he flats with a dominated range and he connects and we lose a few bets. the purpose of 3betting rather than 3bet shoving isnt just to get called by dominated hands, it also induces lighter shoves as alot of players 4bet jamming range is much wider than their 3bet/calling range. for example hands like A9s A8o etc that will fold to a shove can now jam on us as their profitiabilty v our range is bolstered by their fold equity (v our range not v our hand).
3/ the thing is that our opponents range and likely action is going to change a ton, since like a 16bb stack isnt going to be limp shoving a ton, so shoving is better (but i wouldnt mind a small raise if you think that they limp/shove J10s type hands with this stack size). but with 24bb their limping range is almost always to call and is so much more capped, but the key is that we have their range crushed and can play better than them in position, i would actually make the raise smaller tho, like 3.2bb and 4bet jam if limp/3bet. but we dont need to cbet every board with AK, when we cbet AK in heads up pots it isnt as a bluff, it is for value because they will call with worse unpaired hands. also being in position with a hand that is very rarely dead equity wise BVB is ideal and not somethinh we should be avoiding.
4/ QTs is never a -EV shove from the button, but that doesnt mean it is the optimal line to take, when someones 3bet jamming range is the same as their calling range it is much better to be raise/folding as our equity when shoving comes from their high fold frequency not our equity v their calling range (as we are crushed), in this spot i think its totally fine to r/f like A9s or KJ etc in this same spot if the villain is tight enough. If your calling/rejamming range is JJ-AA and i hold 1010 i have horrible equity when called so r/f would also be better.
October 21, 2012
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2-3.
The idea that the 3bet is mainly to induce villain to tool out and that this is worth the risk of playing the hand oop is new to me so I definitely learned something here. I now understand the difference between hands 2 and 3. Since they will not likely shove wide after limping, then the incentive to induce is not there so it is not worth the risk of play oop so we shove in a vacuum.
I dont understand what you mean by their limping range is “capped”. Please explain. I guess this means they are not limp calling with premiums?
Also, if we value bet AK and they will call with weaker unpaired hands then we have to pot control turn and bluff catch on river with A high top kicker a lot correct? (AKTK, wow thats a new one for me)
4.
I agree with what you are saying here. An even more extreme case would be r/f KK if you think they will only call a shove with AA. I guess my point is you can only be sure r/f is better if you think both BB and SB are never shoving light. Is this incorrect or is dodging the times BB calls your shove with say AQ+, JJ+ worth the risk of SB getting it in with something like 22+, Kxs+, Ax+? Im guessing it is, but what about if we had like 25bb? Seems like we might want to take the play away from him in that case, but not in this one since his 12bbs hurt us less with this monster stack.
BTW, I think it's cool that you guys sound so good without being in the same room. You should share how you are doing that with all the other guys on the site. I have heard some tandem vids that did not sound as good, but then again maybe they were a few years old. Im not sure.
May 30, 2012
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capped range is one that doesnt contain the top end of the range, ie 55+ Ax+ K9+ Q10+ J10s all raise pre, therefore his range is capped to worse hands than this when he limps. (example range i made up)
October 21, 2012
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Part 2 now
1. At 30 min. UTG raises. UTG+1 3x's. BTN shoves. We have AKs in SB. You say that UTG+1 is so tight that the AKs is a fold even if BTN was not in the hand. I agree in a vacuum, but does is this true if UTG+1 knows how aggro UTG has been? UTG is the guy that has 3bet a lot recently I believe. UTG's bet is dead money and I expect UTG+1 and BTN to show up with TT-QQ and AK a lot and KK+ a small percentage of the time considering we have AK. It is probably still a fold since it will likely be AK vs AK vs JJ-QQ or AK vs JJ-QQ with tthe other AK folding. It's a great spot for the BTN with JJ though if UTG+1 is just attacking UTG's aggression.
2. The next couple of hands we pick up K7s and A8o. I agree that we probably better not open these while we are tilted. My question is there are some similiar hands like K9s and ATs that we cant fold because just shoving them is probably +EV. If that is the case, would we rather shove here with 27bb vs playing a pot while tilted? What is the max number of bb you would recommend just open shoving with profitable, but marginal hands to avoid getting played back at or avoid having to play post flop while tilted?
3. At 36 min. The bubble starts and we have 20bb in a major. I was in this exact spot yesterday and talked to duggs into chat about playing nitty to survive the bubble even though I knew it was bad poker. It seems like in this spot we want to chip up without show down, get it in and double, or bust. I understand that but I just need to get used to being there so I can mentally handle the risk of bubbling. My question is if there is a point where we stop risking our stack? For example, if we chip up to say 50bb are we still 3 betting people we think are bullying and 4 betting people who 3 bet us? Or is this riskier than necessary when we can just go after the people (like me, lol) who are folding everything?
May 30, 2012
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the problem is that you give someone that tight just waaaaaay too much credit, someone that is that tight doesnt have an air range, or any perception of our range or his own. also blockers dont do as much as you imply, even with blockers his range is like QQ 6 combos AA 3 combos KK 3combos, AK 9 combos (which should be severly discounted) and he may even flat JJ there tbh.
none really, our edge from that stack size is far too great to punt for a +.25bb cEV shove, we realise our equity from that stack size by playing better with our ranges than our opponents, dry heaving caps our own equity so id rather just nit it up and fold pre whilst tilted (or not get tilted)
I shove up to 20bb with an un exploitable range from late positions, but im usually r/c or r/f down to 15bb
May 30, 2012
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also since you seem interested, benny and i made a previous series a week or two before this one for another member.
October 21, 2012
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Thanks man. I am very interested. I even had some hands saved for review from Sunday that I am scrapping because Im not even thinking on this level when I play. I need to watch all of your videos just to be qualified to review my own play. Once I am done with these I fear that I will find so many leaks in my old hands that I'd rather just play a fresh tourney and review that one instead. I also need to go back and view some of the videos the pros have posted again because I did not get a lot of this stuff the first time. I assume it is there but either they went over it too fast or I was listening too slow.
October 6, 2010
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thanks for the kind words loxxii, glad you liked it
i think tom covered the questions pretty well so i wont go over it again. but yeah, duggs definitely needs to widen his STFU range 😀
May 30, 2012
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im there mainly cause benny cant count past 15 it seems
October 21, 2012
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You guys are hilarious man and super knowledgeable to boot. Im coming back to this site daily from now on.
June 27, 2012
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How about you two lovers knock out a podcast…
November 19, 2012
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Ok just watched both all the way through. Solid video. I think badabing made a few mistakes but had the right idea most of the time. AKcc hand in the second part was indeed, suicide. I felt like there were a few situations where Benny would say something, Duggs would disagree, and Benny would give up. Argue more guys! Thats my only criticism, good job.
October 6, 2010
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he gets cranky when i disagree with him 😀
June 27, 2012
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How about you two lovers knock out a podcast…
Great idea cousteer! Audio content is soooo much better than listening to Matt n Dave in the mornings. I’d be super interested hearing about poker progressive thinking. i.e. how the game is evolving, deviating away from standard play, and what new tools are available to regs… It seems poker has become Darwinian where only the fittest survive.. and is highly dynamic. The reason why I’m pestering you two love birds is because I believe your level of understanding and aptitude to study the game is at the forefront and many of us can gain a lot from your enthusiasm.
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