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December 30, 2013
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Just what it says: tell me everything about your note-taking. What do your colors represent? Did you change anything from stars default colors? Do you use the same scheme across different sites (FTP, or Merge which uses random animals)? Are your schemes more devoted to types of opponents, opponents' profitability, or some combination of both?
I used to use a scheme like such on stars:
Green = fish. Generally anytime I saw the player commit an awful play, I'd give them this color forever.
Light Blue = break even player. I used this when I used to frequently SharkScope opponents. This color proved pretty useless and got used a very miniscule % of the time, and is getting discarded.
Dark Blue = “mid-profit reg.” This was mostly for the type of high-volume grinder you'd typically see in the Big $55. They were people who were not losers, but not necessarily people I was scared of at the table. This was used the most of any color I used on my old scheme, but didn't provide a TON of info either way.
Purple = TPE member or someone I know personally, with a little note explaining who it is. This was useful in knowing who knew who I was, or reminding me of some personal dynamic between myself and this opponent. Actually one of my more useful notes in terms of quickly adapting or recalling a specific strategy for this opponent.
Red = high winning reg. The most elite players I play against regularly got this color, guys with large ROIs across high stakes at a big sample. There was no absolute profit number necessary to earn the color, more so the ROI% and how tough they were to play. This color got used the least but was a pretty good for an eyeball test of what tables were going to be tough. It didnt tell me LAG reg vs TAG reg, maniac vs nit, however.
Orange = locked out on Sharkscope, so I knew not to waste a search on them later. Nowadays, I rarely use sharkscope and thus, I rarely use this color.
What's in your note schemes?
I posted a similar thread about HUD design in the Tech/software forum: …..gn/#p54939
September 16, 2013
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After reading your post, I may make some adjustments to my set up as it is pretty general, but as of now:
Green = FISH, because they print money for me! lol Usually peeps with VPIP of 40 or more.
Blue = REG, I have watched them take “thinking player” lines, making correct calls, shoving correctly, etc. Usually VPIP of 15-25
Red – Super Rocks/Nits, hardly ever out of line, playing the nuts. Usually a VPIP of 9 or less.
Yellow – Have seen this player out of line in some weird spots, and then do something really well. I am certain to watch a hand this player is in 100% of the time to get a better handle on what he is doing.
Pretty bland but I have gotten used to it. I need to incorporate Sharkscope as a tool, which I do not use often.
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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i dont use sharkscope nearly as often anymore, so having a note system based soley on SS data doesnt really do much for me now. i also dont want to do one purely based on HUD stats either, since villains HUD stats will do a better job of telling me this more succinctly with experience.
since HEM HUD stats can be sort of amibguous (someone with a high VPIP and PFR can be a highly sophisticated aggressive reg, or a completely idiotic maniac fish), i ideally want to discuss a method ITT on how to sort your colors to tell you the difference!
this end goal will look different for everyone else, but the logic behind it should be the same: one quick glance that tells you something your HUD stats dont already tell you, something that SharkScope data alone cant tell you.
ready to hear some more!
April 16, 2013
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Spoiler alert – this post will be compltely irrelevant to MTTs – i just thought i would write it to give you an idea of my thought process when i'm labelling players in zoom cash games as it involves players tendancies
It goes as follows:
Red – maniac, capable of mental bluffs with no equity (levels himself and takes unnecessary risk)
Orange – total fish, no idea whats going on, doesnt know why to bet etc
Light light brown– loose passive, limping etc, the 40/3 type
Blue – solid reg, basically playing solid'ish TAG stats
bright green – nittyyyyyy, playing 11/8 at zoom cash etc
purple – exploitable pre (stealing too much, 3 betting too much)
super bright blue – exploitable postflop (cbets 85%, folds to cbets and x/r or donk bets/floats >80%)
pink – station, calls down at every oppurtunity regardless of your percieved range, unsure if he has a fold button
I hope the thought process behind my HUD will help with thought process for creating your own for MTTs. I am aware that a lot of this won't translate to MTTs due to sample size issues and ranges changing as tournaments progress
October 6, 2010
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Have you described your colours in a video before moveslikedarvin? Because my colour coding is almost identical to yours and I am pretty sure i adapted it from a video. My memory says it was betudontbet but it was probably you.
Anyway, here are my colour coding.
Yellow – When I make a note on someone, but have no other info.
Green – Fish – pretty self explanatory really.
Light Blue – Regfish – if i scope them, players that have played a lot of games but are significant losers. These are either microstakes players, or players that play a ton but have lost a bunch.
Dark Blue – TPE. Usually either TPEers or people i have met from around the place. very similar to the purple below, but i couldnt think up of another category haha.
Purple – People i know. Usually people other than TPEers that i know play poker.
Orange – Reg. These are people that are usually small to moderate winners at mid stakes, or decent winners at microstakes. As with darvin's category above, usually people i am not really scared of playing against, but i know they arent going to just be spewing money at me.
Red – Good Reg – People that are significant winners. Usually i define that by more than me, which is think is a pretty decent starting point. Usually these players that i will pay a lot of attention to.
Pink – Sicko – Usually means they have either a scope rating of way more than 90, some sort of leaderboard star, are well known by their screen name, are a named pro, or have well over 6 figures of profit on scope. Usually i try to stay away from these people.
I think these types of categorising are more informative than hud stats, because they can change so much depending on tournament dynamics, much more than cash notes, which I think something like michael's scheme above could work better.
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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bennymacca said:
Have you described your colours in a video before moveslikedarvin? Because my colour coding is almost identical to yours and I am pretty sure i adapted it from a video. My memory says it was betudontbet but it was probably you.
Anyway, here are my colour coding.
Yellow – When I make a note on someone, but have no other info.
Green – Fish – pretty self explanatory really.
Light Blue – Regfish – if i scope them, players that have played a lot of games but are significant losers. These are either microstakes players, or players that play a ton but have lost a bunch.
Dark Blue – TPE. Usually either TPEers or people i have met from around the place. very similar to the purple below, but i couldnt think up of another category haha.
Purple – People i know. Usually people other than TPEers that i know play poker.
Orange – Reg. These are people that are usually small to moderate winners at mid stakes, or decent winners at microstakes. As with darvin's category above, usually people i am not really scared of playing against, but i know they arent going to just be spewing money at me.
Red – Good Reg – People that are significant winners. Usually i define that by more than me, which is think is a pretty decent starting point. Usually these players that i will pay a lot of attention to.
Pink – Sicko – Usually means they have either a scope rating of way more than 90, some sort of leaderboard star, are well known by their screen name, are a named pro, or have well over 6 figures of profit on scope. Usually i try to stay away from these people.
I think these types of categorising are more informative than hud stats, because they can change so much depending on tournament dynamics, much more than cash notes, which I think something like michael's scheme above could work better.
HA pretty much exact same thing. right down to YELLOW which i didnt post as well. maybe i did one in a live vid with daryl where you saw the actual stars client being played out. it WAS betudontbet's style that i pretty much stole 100%. it was a vast improvement over my original notes (nothing), but it still needs work for my purposes.
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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michae1di11on said:
Spoiler alert – this post will be compltely irrelevant to MTTs – i just thought i would write it to give you an idea of my thought process when i'm labelling players in zoom cash games as it involves players tendancies
It goes as follows:
Red – maniac, capable of mental bluffs with no equity (levels himself and takes unnecessary risk)
Orange – total fish, no idea whats going on, doesnt know why to bet etc
Light light brown– loose passive, limping etc, the 40/3 type
Blue – solid reg, basically playing solid'ish TAG stats
bright green – nittyyyyyy, playing 11/8 at zoom cash etc
purple – exploitable pre (stealing too much, 3 betting too much)
super bright blue – exploitable postflop (cbets 85%, folds to cbets and x/r or donk bets/floats >80%)
pink – station, calls down at every oppurtunity regardless of your percieved range, unsure if he has a fold button
I hope the thought process behind my HUD will help with thought process for creating your own for MTTs. I am aware that a lot of this won't translate to MTTs due to sample size issues and ranges changing as tournaments progress
michael,
again, great post! im probably going to pick your brain in the very near future about ZOOM, as im trying to get into low stakes cash i can play for a couple hours on days i cant fully commit to playing tournaments online.
how well do HUDs work on zoom? even in mtts it takes a hand or so for the stats to update on the HUD, so i imagine if this is true in zoom, its a nightmare!
April 16, 2013
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My hud works really well. You play so many hands against the same regs, you can really pick apart their game in very little time. I think I heard someone say there is no zoom hud for mac so i hope you dont have a mac.
I've played 200,000 hands 10nl-50nl and have 3000-7000 hands on most of the regs. With a good hud, good notes, good labelling and not auto-piloting, you can think of the range and a game plan for every individual player in each spot in about 5 seconds.
I've started playing MTTs 3 days a week and cash games 2 days a week. Zoom cash is great. No table selecting, no fighting to play the fish and you can degen it up and play thousands of hands a day and tables never break. Sorry to you guys not on Stars, you probably want to kill me after that Zoom post.
April 16, 2013
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I also have dark green for players i can see are multiabling but i'm not yet sure how they are playing and yellow for players are playing 1 table and likely recreational players.
September 29, 2012
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I use:
Green for loose passive
Yellow for loose aggressive
I have a greenish/yellow for a player who is mixed, tend to be loose passive pre, but a little more aggresive than a standard loose passive post flop.
Orange for TAG
Red for tight passive
Blue for winning regs
I find that even using a HUD and being able to look at their HUD stats, having the colors helps me make quicker decisions when multi-tabling.
I got a way from marking people as a color for fish a while ago. Ok, he's a fish. Why? what did he do that made me think that? Is he a loose fish or is he a tight fish? Is he a fish becuase he doesn't understand SPR or pot committment?
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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jjpregler said:
I use:
Green for loose passive
Yellow for loose aggressive
I have a greenish/yellow for a player who is mixed, tend to be loose passive pre, but a little more aggresive than a standard loose passive post flop.
Orange for TAG
Red for tight passive
Blue for winning regs
I find that even using a HUD and being able to look at their HUD stats, having the colors helps me make quicker decisions when multi-tabling.
I got a way from marking people as a color for fish a while ago. Ok, he's a fish. Why? what did he do that made me think that? Is he a loose fish or is he a tight fish? Is he a fish becuase he doesn't understand SPR or pot committment?
yup, this is one reason im looking to move away from my current color scheme. i want to include “weak” or “fish” in some of the descriptions–perhaps, tight fish, loose passive fish, etc
October 6, 2010
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your HUD tells you whether he is a loose fish or a tight fish though. and fish usually stand out pretty well.
much more important to differentiate the dudes with the reggish stats, as it can make a huge difference if you are playing against a dude that has ok stats but sucks postflop, from the dude that has the same stats that is a beast.
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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this is a very good point benny. much more important to focus on “LAG reg” vs “tag reg” or “aggro reg” vs “passive reg” as those are the opponents most likely to give me the most trouble. knowing the EXACT kind of fish im up against is not necessarily the biggest need. however, if i can come up with a suitable scale for regs, i could just do the same for fish and select more colors.
April 16, 2013
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I'd love to know what labels/notes my opponents at Zoom have on me. Given that I get 4bet about 75% the time that I 3bet over the past month or two, I guess they think I'm pretty agg. I've had to adjust to this recently, my stats are clearly getting noticed. I've recently cut a lot of the preflop aggression from my game because of this.
September 29, 2012
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When it comes down to it, we have to determine what is it we want to know with our color coding and our note taking. (I think color coding is just one facet of short handed notes.)
We want to know how this individual player deviates from standard poker. If he plays a hand in a standard manner, that doesn't tell us much, but if we see him slowplaying a monster to the river on a wet board, that is something we want to remember. If he can bet for thin value, we want to know that.
So I think as a project we should list everything we want to know about players, then pick the categories we want to color code while keeping notes on the other stuff.
I think the color coding should be more general information of this type, while the notes should be the more specific.
Or alternatively, I'm also wondering if we should start thinking about color coding the players we want to be in hands with as opposed to players to avoid. Like doing a red, yellow, or green coding. Tag the really good players red, the mediocre yellow and the weak players who we can profit the most from in green. Then we would have in our notes the reasons why this guy makes a good target.
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