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February 5, 2015
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Well I hope I haven’t duplicated a topic, but I had a quick look through the topics under discussion and I can’t see anything recent. I know AlPike brought up the proposed changes a year ago, but I must say I am surprised I haven’t seen more on this at TPE. I do understand it is an American site, and that in the UK we are in the (less) privileged (by the day) position of being able to play on Pokerstars, which I do take for granted in truth.
However, the recent changes made by Amaya and the direction they seem to be taking is a real de-motivator for me. They claim to be making the changes to benefit the recreational player, to encourage them. Do they take us for complete idiots? It takes roughly 10 seconds to see that chrome star players are the only level which will benefit by a rakeback increase of 10%. Well B.F.D..
I myself am supposedly one of the recreational players they speak of. And I can tell you, I take their line that they are “taking from the regs. to give to the recs.” as a base insult. I cannot for the life of me imagine their reasons for making these moves, but I can say that whilst I never had aspirations to go pro, I always had at least one eye on moving up the stars. I am currently a Goldstar. And I have been de-motivated here to the point I have almost stopped playing.
Alot of the US grinders moved continents to be able to continue their career after Black Friday. A whole industry has grown around 3rd party software. I understand Stars has no obligation to anyone (except ethically speaking to honour their SNE commitments), but I cannot even see how the changes are going to benefit Amaya itself! In fact, AFAICT they are enacting changes that have the potential to wreck themselves even! I know Stars have access to data we do not, but it seems to me Amaya is an arrogant and ignorant about the poker ecosystem. At the very least, by treating SNE’s thus, they are tarnishing their industry-leading good name.
Really, shame on them. And shame on Daniel Negreanu. At least, I like DNegs. So maybe not shame on him. I can see he is in a corner. And I suppose if he jumps ship, then we really will have no voice with access to Amaya. But guys like Ike Haxton and Alex Millar, ex TeamOnlines who resigned over the SNE issues…respect to those guys.
Rant over. I really feel for you SNE’s. Disgusting how you are being treated. And one final thing regarding proposed changes to 3rd party software… I rarely if ever use my HUD vs recreational players. A) I do not have a valid sample size, and b) I usually just try to avoid these guys. I use my HUD mainly vs other regs. So what gives here?
Any professional insight will be appreciated this end. Am I getting my knickers in a twist over nothing? Thanks.
TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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I do wish I had more to add here, but I’m obviously quite unfamiliar with the previous program or the current program. My understanding is that it did not impact the MTT grinders that much, but again i don’t have much to base that on other than listening to other people talk.
For sure the way it was communicated would seem to have been a complete cluster.
I did see a tweet yesterday that Dani stern was going to meet with Amaya, so maybe that is a postive step?
February 20, 2015
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“I know Stars have access to data we do not …”
Speaking generically, this is often the case. I work for a large commerce company, and people never understand why we make the policy decisions we do. I’m also active in the trading card industry, and certain segments of the hobby don’t understand why manufacturers make the choices they do. (Granted, some of them are indeed folly.)
February 5, 2015
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Hello Joel and KB.
Thanks for your input. I have been eagerly awaiting the result of the meeting between the players and Amaya, I really was holding out some hope. But alas, it seems not much progress was made. Alex Millar said in his Chicago Joey podcast that he was unsure why Amaya was enacting these changes; either they were blundering fools totally out of touch with how the poker ecosystem works, or that Amaya had found they had purchased a lame duck with Stars and that perhaps they were on a cash grab (perhaps with a view to selling Stars on?).
Well it seems the verdict may be that it is a mixture of the two scenarios.
It seems Amaya were able to present data which convinced the players that the ecosystem was in dire need of overhaul. However, the changes they have proposed in response seem, if anything, counter productive, and are likely to exacerbate the problems rather than fix them.
Apparently Amaya took on massive debt with the Pokerstars purchase, debt which has been worsened by the strengthening dollar. But really this is all speculation.
KB, you said that the changes might not have affected the MTT grinders so badly. However, I feel that even if this is true, we should show solidarity with the cash game players. Awarding precisely zero VPPs on the high stakes cash tables is not only unjust imo, it is also a recipe for disaster for the ecosystem. Apparently Stars are concerned with regs “bum hunting” recs.. Well how will it help any if the high stakes games dry up and the HS regs move down stakes in order to max out their rakeback? A seriously flawed “fix” if ever I saw one. In fact, this move will massively exacerbate the problem. This is just one example of many.
Also, from a personal perspective, Stars have hinted that HUDs may be banned from use. This will be a disaster for me, as I rely on my HUD to multi-table in the MTT sng’s I play almost exclusively ( as do most regs. in these games). I expect the sng’s will practically die off if they ban HUDs, as the edges in these reg infested games are already very small. I expect winning regs. will remain winning regs., and the same losing players will continue to lose; it’s just that regs.’ ROI will be drastically reduced by the reduction in volume.
Again, even looking objectively at the thing, I cannot for the life of me imagine how even Amaya expects to benefit any from these changes. Just the opposite in fact.
Totally stumped by all this.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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MTTs will be affected because some former cash pros will start playing more of them, making them harder.
If losers continue to lose at the same or faster rate but win rates for regs declines, that means Stars gets more of the money from the losers. Of course it might also lead to lower volume and so overall be against Stars’ interests, but in the short term that’s the explanation for how it will benefit them.
December 30, 2015
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As a micro stakes (for now) recreational player I have to say the new system is much easier to understand and use. I don’t know if the math works out as well, but I am posting to comment on what others might experience. Since the change I am often using StarsCoin to buy SnG tickets. Before I felt like I sort of checked in every now and then and occasionally got a few bucks back. The rewards felt more disconnected.
Again, just commenting on the end-user experience side. It sounds like some people definitely got the short-end and it wasn’t handled well. I hope things work out well for you all who have a more meaningful stake in this.
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