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Bankroll Management - Rakeback: what to do with VPPs on pokerstars
Sen
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February 12, 2014 - 2:29 pm
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I was wondering what the pros on TPE do with their VPPs?

Obviously I am not gonna buy a polo-shirt with a pokerstars sticker, but in terms of value I wonder if I should just use the VPPs to buy tournament tickets of the highest BI-class I normally play (~$27) or could I collect enough VPPs to play the $109 sunday kickoff or other tournaments which are normally out of my buyin range?

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Killingbird
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February 12, 2014 - 3:56 pm
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When I could use them, I tended to use them to try and satty in to bigger events that I could not otherwise play.  But I think the whole system has changed a bit since back in the old days, so I'll let someone who can play there now chime in  cool

bennymacca
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February 12, 2014 - 4:36 pm
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tourneys for sure are the best value way to spend your points. 

 

i would use them to play a $109 or something – gives you a good goal to strive for too – if i grind out this many points, my reward is to play a big tourney. 

Shutup Dorn
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February 16, 2014 - 8:53 pm
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Not so fast Benny, those polos are pretty sweet..

Jokes aside, I agree. Tourneys allow you to “take a shot” without upsetting your bankroll applecart. They also act as an incentive to keep to a schedule of grinding so that you can continue to rack up VPPs, and thus take more shots.

jacobsharktank
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February 17, 2014 - 4:00 pm
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forgive if i'm wrong, but if the site gives you those points (which is just a form of rake back), wouldn't it make sense to turn them back into your bankroll? think about what that does for someone who is in your exact shoes who doesn't. idk how many points youre talking about functionally, but if you have the option to increase your bankroll (which buying a ticket for a tournament you normally play does), shouldn't you be taking that? these points aren't free money or anything, nor do they feel (to me anyway) to be bonuses. it feels like it's part of your bankroll and should be treated as such. if you use them on a 5x buy-in or something, it amounts to you playing a 5x buyin tournament for direct cash (if you assume your bankroll is now x+rakeback points). i see the merit of using points for higher buyins as opposed to cash for higher buyins but that's only because the ratio likely tips more in your favor the more you spend at once and it becomes slightly cheaper than its actual cost. being from the US, i don't really have this kind of set up, but i do think about these things. if rakeback is given in points instead of dollars, and you play tournaments, don't points just count as a separate currency of your bankroll? do you play out of your bankroll when you cash for exactly that buyin in profit for the session or so? if the answers no (and it should be lol) then yah why should you use it for more than what you normally play?

bennymacca
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February 18, 2014 - 4:34 pm
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it is a fair point you bring up

 

my main reasoning for doing it is to keep the game interesting. If i make enough points to use them to buy into the sunday million, that is goal to work towards, and is a hell of a lot more interesting than getting 7x$33 tickets or whatever. you correctly make the point that the EV of doing so might be lower, but I think there is definite value in shooting for that big score once in a while, playing out of your comfort zone, preparing you for these larger tourneys that you will hope to play regularly one day etc etc. 

Sen
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February 18, 2014 - 5:28 pm
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Jacobsharktank, you made exactly the points I was thinking about when posting this thread.

On a purely mathematical basis you are totally right.

Benny made good point, though. Facing new challanges and keeping motivation up is a very important factor when grinding MTTs all week long.

I still haven't decided what to do with my VPPs, but I guess a good idea may be to use them for shots on bigger buy-in tournaments when I had a very profitable month. On the other hand when I didn't meet my goals for the month I'll just use them as an extention of my bankroll and not buyin for more expensive tourneys than I usually play.

Thanks for the suggestions!

MovesLikeDarvin

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February 20, 2014 - 8:14 pm
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jacob makes a good point but there is one caveat: if he is arguing to turn these points into dollars rather than tournament tickets, the points probably convert at a different rate /$ than they do for /t$. you would get these at “less bang for your buck” than tournament tickets (otherwise wouldnt everyone take cash?).

 

ive currently just been massing my points and not thinking about them on all sites.  FTPs system currently sucks (is barely existent really) and Stars doesnt have much of anything i want to play yet.  

fwiw imo you should spend these on sunday major tokens (esp if u want to but cant afford them directly). or at least satellites to majors.  sunday warm up/million are both really soft fields early and the experience is worth it. the 109s and 55s are actually more grinder-heavy than the sunday $215s.

OneTime1Time
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February 21, 2014 - 3:04 am
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I'm using mine to get the watch from Stars. But that's purely because I like watches. I like money too, but I seem to like watches more. If you have a GF who likes poker, use them to get her a shirt. It goes a long way.

From a pure rakeback PoV, using them for T$ is the best bang for your buck. I used to turn mine all back into $$, until I actually went and did the maths. 

As Darvin mentioned, I would avoid taking your “shots” in the Sunday 55$ and 109$ tournaments. The 215$'s will be way softer than those two buy in's are. 

jacobsharktank
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February 24, 2014 - 1:11 pm
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well i was suggesting taking the tourney ticket value thats your best value but also within your bankroll. so if youre abi is 22 and you can get like 7 $22 tickets or 1 $162 ticket, I'd take the 7 tickets in a heart beat because that's an increase to your bankroll by (if proper roll size of 150buyins) upward of a few %, all just from rakeback, which is just money back you've spent, so it lessens the cost of the tournaments you played initially, THUS becoming nothing more but part of your roll.

jacobsharktank
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February 24, 2014 - 1:14 pm
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also if youre taking shots, you guys should really be looking at smaller fields. even if the field is twice as strong, the drop in your roi is combatted by the fact that youre talking about being in the money much more often, even if your in the money % stays the same. (12-20% of 200 is a lot better than 12-20% of 3000, lower variance, shorter game length..esp if youre talking about playing something for 4 hours and bubbling vs playing 4 hours and final tabling a small field). just a thought. youre not talking about playing differently to mincash in this bigger buyin, but you increase your bankroll by a decent chunk with any cash in a bigger buyin than your normal roll, so you should give yourself the best chance to do so, which is in a small yet stronger field. i know that seems counter intuitive, but i'd rather play a game with a far smaller prizepool and a much better shot of cashing/running deep. your roi in a bigger field game will never be actualized in a shot taking experience, so you should probably be looking to make it as a high a cash rate as possible.

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