View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Am I ready to "go pro?"
The Riceman
London UK
Hitting The Circuit
Members
Forum Posts: 731
Member Since:
February 5, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
December 11, 2018 - 4:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hey TPE. I have a question. Hardly surprising. I have searched online for the answer, and by all accounts, or most, I think I have it, but I am just curious to get TPE’s thoughts, and although I am sure this question must have been asked here, I don’t remember seeing it.

How large does my sample size need to be to know if I can go pro?

I have been a losing tourney player all the way to 2017. In 2018 I have won a total of $37000, playing mainly SNG’s but also a fair few tourneys. I have a sample size of 2367 tourneys/ SNG’s. My ROI is 10%.

Last year I took home from my day job £40000, or $49,952 gross. My net income was £30,161 or $37,666.

I could, very easily, multiply by 10 my game volume. In fact, I could probably x it by 20.

Is 2367 SNG’s/ T’s a large enough sample size to be confident that my 10% ROI is basically guaranteed? Or should I give it another year to make sure? My estimation is that the ratio of SNG to T is 10:1.

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
December 12, 2018 - 9:07 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Guaranteed? Just take that word out of your vocabulary if you are thinking of playing poker professionally.

Then check out …../mtt-pros/

rppoker
Midstakes Master
Members
Forum Posts: 115
Member Since:
September 3, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
December 12, 2018 - 4:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I don’t think you can say a specific sample size gives you a sure-fire answer. The best you can do is do your due diligence, study your situation, put in the hours grinding, prepare as best you can and determine if you are properly funded to make the switch, but at some point you have to take a leap of faith if you want to take your shot.

Let me give you an example outside of poker that might put this into some perspective. When I graduated from college I joined my family’s business. I worked in the family business and while I enjoyed working with my dad, I did not enjoy the business itself. After five years I made the decision that I would leave the family business and go into sportswriting (journalism was my college major and I was a sportswriter/columnist on my college newspaper). I gave my dad one year’s notice that I was leaving so that a replacement could be found and trained. During that year I worked in the family business during regular business hours and I got a freelance job (meager pay, good experience) covering high school sports in evenings and during weekends for the Chicago Sun-Times. I was also all set to go to Northwestern University to get my Master’s in journalism when the year was up. I never went to Northwestern, however, because I ended up getting a full-time job at a national sports publication before the start of the school year. I worked at the national sports publication for 12 years and loved it before changing fields one more time 16 years ago to take over a new family business that had been started after the original family business was sold.

Most people told me when I left the original family business to go back into journalism that they thought it took a lot of guts to make the decision I did without knowing if I would be able to get back into journalism after a six-year hiatus. I never saw it as taking guts or as being risky. I felt that the only way to get back into journalism was to take the plunge and commit to the change. Even though I did not know how it would play out, the only way to make it happen was to go for it. There was no guarantee it would work, but trying to just dip my toe into journalism was never going to make it happen. I did my due diligence, was confident in my abilities and I went for it. I suppose I was walking a tightrope without a net, but the only way to get from one part of my life to the next was to take a chance.

That is what I suspect a poker player must do when making the initial decision to become a full-time pro. I am not saying to be reckless in your decision, but you put in the work, see some positive results and at some point you have to decide if you want to go for it. If it seems too risky there is no shame in not taking the plunge. But if you have the bankroll to give it a shot and deal with no regular paycheck then perhaps you make the decision to go for it. You have to take an honest look at your ability to handle a possible poker downswing when you no longer receive a steady paycheck.

As for your question about whether you should take the plunge now or give yourself another year to part-time grind at poker to see what the results are while you still have a regular paycheck, the advice I give to most people in business is it is almost always better to take a chance one year too late as opposed to one year too soon if you are not certain. Another way of looking at this is when I am talking to tenants or prospective tenants in the office buildings I own or my family owns (the new family business), I always tell them that it is always better to take too small a space than too big a space. If you take too small of a space you are a bit cramped for a year but you know you can handle it financially before going bigger. If you take too big of a space you might end up putting yourself out of business.

I hope this helps. I thought that looking at the question from a non-poker perspective might clarify things.

RaisersEdge
Lighting Money On Fire
Members
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
October 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
December 14, 2018 - 4:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Foucault said
Guaranteed? Just take that word out of your vocabulary if you are thinking of playing poker professionally.

Then check out …..-pros/  

What he said!!!

The Riceman
London UK
Hitting The Circuit
Members
Forum Posts: 731
Member Since:
February 5, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
December 15, 2018 - 1:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

I never cease to be amazed at the breadth of characters we have here from all walks of life. 

“Better to take the plunge one year too late than too early”.

Sure, I can go with this. Also, I got kids to support, so I have to be sure it will work out.

WRT what Andrew says re: taking ‘guaranteed’ out my vocabulary…I know that a full time MTT pro can never bank on winning years sometimes…which must be brutal. But a SNG’er who dabbles in MTT’s is surely much better placed to have as guaranteed an income as it is possible to get?

Avatar
Killingbird
Cary, NC

TPE Management
Forum Posts: 4582
Member Since:
April 6, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
December 17, 2018 - 10:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

wow

Foucault said
Guaranteed? Just take that word out of your vocabulary if you are thinking of playing poker professionally.

Then check out …..-pros/  

WOW, i remember this post from way back in the day.  A really good read!

The Riceman
London UK
Hitting The Circuit
Members
Forum Posts: 731
Member Since:
February 5, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
December 19, 2018 - 8:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Oh shit! I have just looked at the link…and I also remember it from back in the day! I haven’t read it again yet fully…but I do recall IIRC that it was a thoroughly depressing post!

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
55 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Philbro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12007

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1