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June 2, 2012
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2015 WSOP $10k Main Event
Level 1: 50/100 stacks are deep 200-300 bigs
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I had been quite active the first hour kinda testing the waters. I got caught on two stone cold river bluff raises in spots that I really didn’t think villain could call. One, his range was ultra wide but he flopped two pair Q4 out of the bb in a raised multi-way pot, it checked around on the flop, he lead the turn, folds to me I float with complete air, and make a healthy raise on a river K. He called. I should mention I had on a suit (dress shirt and blazer) and stacked my chips like a fish (in stacks of 2). I figured my image would get me more folds especially on river raises. On another hand I check/call the flop and check/raised the turn on a ATxJ board and I barreled the river K. 4-to-a-straight he calls w AK top two. So much for my image. The point here is, that I have shown two “big” river bluffs already and more importantly that I had floated, check raised, bluff raised the river, etc.
So in this hand…
Preflop action:
UTG is an older gentlemen probably in his 60’s and hasn’t played much at all thus far. He opens to 250. Folds to me in mid and I call w 58ss. Folds to button who is a world class Brazilian player, Andre Akkari (Team Pokerstars Pro), and he calls as well. Blinds fold. 3-way action.
Pot size: 900
Flop: 958 rainbow (no spades)
UTG cbets 1050 into 900 pot. I call.
The question: is raising better and why? If raising, how much? And what’s the plan if button cold 3bets or flats?
As played, Akkari otb then raises to 3600. UTG quickly calls. Obv not too worried about UTG as his range is basically overpairs at this point.
The question: What is my play here?
Both Akkari and UTG have got me covered and I have roughly 25.5k behind. Pot size at this decision point is 9150.
Thanks for the read and looking forward to all your thoughts.
I should also mention that this was my first WSOP Main and I feel like I was a little too aggro early in level 1 maybe because I was a little out of my comfort zone. I did settle down later and began playing my game, getting into the zone and picking good spots now that I had a bit more info on how I could expect my table mates to respond to my actions/aggression.
April 30, 2015
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To me, the UTG player’s overbet on the flop makes me think he has overcards to the flop and doesn’t want any calls with a hand like 77 or something.. If he had a great hand, he would probably bet for value than overbet. Although I don’t like your pre-flop call with 85ss, as played, i think I would also just call the flop hoping button folds and I get in position for a bet on the turn to take it down. Now that button raises, I don’t think he has a nutty hand, but he picked up on the overbet from UTG and wants to see where he is at. He doesn’t give your call much respect due to the two bluffs you have shown in the first level.
As played, I would call the raise and bet the turn if a non-scare card comes. I am not betting if any face card comes though. This deep, I think experienced pros can exploit first timers and amateurs whose main goal is to stay alive in the main event.
But whenever I post a way I would play the hand in this forum, TPE pros almost always have an opposite idea.. I am hoping at least one day I will get an “I agree with the line you are taking” from theginger or foucault or some other :D. But I guess that’s where the learning comes from…
July 15, 2015
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New member here, first post to forum. And I play pretty low stakes online so consider my analysis with that in mind.
I hate this spot. Given the read and actions of UTG, I think his range is weighted towards overpairs. Since we have floated and done other wacky things, I don't think our flat looks like a strong range, although it can certainly include some strong hands like the one we actually have. Now looking at button's action, if he is a world-class player, he is probably not raising an old guy with an overpair-heavy range with total garbage. He is probably making this raise with a balanced range, nutted hands like 67, 98, and sets, along with good bluffing candidates, like JT and some gutshots with backdoor flush draws. And here we sit, with what has been reduced to a medium-strenth and extremely vulnerable hand. So what do we do?
-I think raising would be pretty terrible. Sets and straights are never folding, perhaps 98 and JT might fold but I think villain has enough of the former in his range that we are crushed when we raise.
-I don't like calling. We will dislike many turn cards, and even on blank turns will still be lost against button. Can we call a turn barrel? What are the chances he checks behind on turn if we flat?
-Can we fold? Seems so nitty but I think I like it better than the other two alternatives.
December 24, 2013
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The pro doesn't have to have just sets or straights to be raising, and even though utg's range is mostly overpairs, I think an aggressive professional can probably navigate a hand while this deep. UTG probably have overcards like AQ, AK, KQ all of the time as well, and will call and fold later, or just fold now. Your call doesn't say dead money, but your set and straight combos are fewer than your pair+draw or backdoor/overcard combos. Villain can have sets, straights, TJ QJ QT, A7s, K7s, lots of bluffs still possible. It's a pretty good squeeze spot too since utg is likely easy to play against from your other villain's perspective, and you have a lot of one pair hands here. I think raising may overplay your hand given that you also have sets and straights in your range and villain does too. Putting in money ahead when villain has all his overcard gutshots and stuff won't be bad. Q or K aren't bad cards for you since they don't complete the draws and your utg villain still won't have a set like 70% of the time no matter what he has if that peels. J, T, 7 are probably the worst cards. I'm really torn what to do on the turn though…
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Hey Wilo. Nice to meet you in LV. I know you and I have discussed this hand already, but for the benefit of others:
1. This is a good illustration of why not to play this hand pre-flop. Being deep isn’t an excuse to play junky hands. Even on a well above average flop for you, you still can’t confidently put all your money in.
2. I don’t know where people are getting the idea that UTG has unpaired overcards. I’d expect to see an overpair pretty much always from him, and I’d expect AK to check-fold.
3. This is a great spot for Akari to try to bluff UTG off of an overpair. Described Villain (and in fact most people) are not stacking off with an overpair on this flop this deep in the Main Event. His range is capped, Akari’s is not.
4. Nothing good for Hero happens on future streets, or if Akari puts money into the pot on the flop, either by calling or by raising.
For all these reasons, I think Hero should just make a small raise on the flop and fold if Akari 3-bets. Calling is inviting a bluff you can’t really continue to, which is what may have happened here. If you raise and Akari folds, you have a good idea of what UTG has and can proceed accordingly (“taking it down” should not be your primary goal). As played, I’d fold. Your range is too capped if you just call, you’re going to lose the pot anyway on most runouts, and your hand is too weak to 3bet.
December 24, 2013
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I guess I just expect those kinds of hands to be auto-cbet 3 ways or heads-up by an EP opener. Now that you’ve mentioned it, I see why it’s fair an old man just isn’t doing that.
Another thing that I just ignored was folding this preflop. I wouldn’t have played this hand, but whenever I see someone do something super deep preflop, I just imagine there may be a way to play it post that I’m just not familiar. So folding means we don’t get put in this spot at all.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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+1 to fold pre over here. If you’re ignoring the possibility of folding this preflop, you’re probably playing too loose.
I also think, OP, that you seem to be more concerned with ‘image’ than actual ranges, just based on the first post – you mention you made big river raises and big bluffs, but you don’t seem to make reference to what kinds of hands you’re actually representing with these bluffs, or what your range is. I’d imagine the reason that the image you created by wearing a suit didn’t get you a fold in these spots is because you probably weren’t doing a convincing job of actually repping a strong range.
June 2, 2012
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Thanks for the feedback!
Pre analysis:
Most of you agreed the correct play is to fold pre. And I like it. It would have kept me out of this tough spot for sure. But, tbh I also like getting involved in pos vs a weak player who's range is capped when we're super deep. And bc his range is capped, I really felt like there's no way anyone is squeezing pre without a real hand. For this reason, I felt pretty comfortable calling knowing that chances are I'm going to see a flop. The cutoff and HJ were weak players. The only player left in pos who I would have to worry about is Akkari on the button should he call. Well, I guess I learned my lesson lol.
I feel like I can find other spots post flop even when I don't hit (which will be more often than not). I didn't call expecting to hit hard. Hitting “hard” was just a “bonus”. I put bonus in quotations bc it actually cost me to hit. When I don't see a good spot post, granted, I'll just have to fold and lose the 250 chips I invested pre.
Flop analysis:
My thinking here was, let's pot control this puppy, under-rep our hand, and see how the hand develops. The reason to pot control is bc I felt if I raise, given my image (as I defined above), it might induce a reraise bluff from Akkari in position knowing full well that it will be tough for me to continue from oop for two more streets without the strongest part of my range. Yes the utg has an overpair but as stated by Foucault, he's not going broke in level 1 with an overpair. So Akkari doesn't have much to worry about against him. I felt like I would set up the button for such a sweet spot by me raising here. So I elected to flat. By flatting I thought even if Akkari squeezes here, the pot is still relatively smallish compared to if I raise and he reraises. When he raised and UTG snap called, I felt like ok I induced here, my hand is “pretty” strong, and it's time to end it given how vulnerable my hand is. So I reraised to 11,500 and was left with 15.5k behind. My intent here was obv not to fold out better hands except maybe 98, but rather, to fold away Akkari's equity. He then snap jammed all in. UTG makes a disgusted face and folds. I stand up and say so sick so sick (lol), and I throw my cards in the muck. Akkari doesn't show obv. Putting everything else aside (folding pre, or raising on the flop), given the action to this point, I think my biggest mistake was the raise sizing amount. I think a better raise would have been 9300 and would have accomplished the same thing. My insticts kicked in and I think I made it that big, to “let” everyone know, I'm serious about this hand and I'm not folding, I'm committed, so go ahead and try something if you want. Needless to say, I got jammed on and folded.
I forgot to mention, this was the last hand before the first break. Does that matter?
Andrew, it was great meeting you as well. If you ever make it out to Miami, hmu as they say.
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