View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 (1 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
WPN $27 TPTK vs reg in 3bet pot.
Avatar
Carlos
Atlanta, Ga
Member Moderator
Forum Posts: 778
Member Since:
October 21, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
January 29, 2014 - 10:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hand vs a reg running 23/16 and his fold to 3bet is 25%. I dont think I beat much here.

…..31/replay/

 

I feel like he is checking back any hand that I beat and draws without a pair probably shove the flop. I feel like there are many more combos in his range that beat me than dont when he shoves the river after I called the big bet on the turn. My hand is face up and I dont think he expects me to be able to get away from it.

Chuck Blaze
Small Stakes Grinder
Members
Forum Posts: 77
Member Since:
August 21, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
January 30, 2014 - 9:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

tough river spot for sure. Not sure how often AJ shows up there or 99-77 hands that he might call the 3bet pre. i think cbetting the flop makes it alot easier to play here as if he has it he's gonna raise on that board and our hand looks stronger so we might get folds depending on his post flop tendancies. HIs check back looks weak to me.

Chuck Blaze
Small Stakes Grinder
Members
Forum Posts: 77
Member Since:
August 21, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
January 30, 2014 - 11:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

and the way we've played the hand is so weak a good reg could be light especially given his tendancy not to fold to 3bets. i think his range could be pretty wide here and our line has kept it the widest.

Avatar
Carlos
Atlanta, Ga
Member Moderator
Forum Posts: 778
Member Since:
October 21, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
January 31, 2014 - 12:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I cant see a reg being light on the river once I call the turn bet. I would say my range is capped, but not weak. I look like I have a marginal Ax and I dont think he had a reason to believe he could get me off of it for that 1/3 bet.

 

I agree that this is an easy bet get it in on the flop. I'm learning more and more how 90% of poker is just getting the preflop and flop decisions right. Doing so eliminates a ton of tough turn and river decisions.

Chuck Blaze
Small Stakes Grinder
Members
Forum Posts: 77
Member Since:
August 21, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
January 31, 2014 - 5:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

yah ultimatly I think he could have air there a decent amount of the time. the A is a decent card to bet here against a certain part of your range.i agree when you call the turn bet he has a good idea of your range but maybe he is a strong enough player to know he was gonna bet turn and barral river given the stack sizes. to me he either has the nuts or nothing. i don't think he plays his value hands like this at all.

 

i also think your image matter, cause if he thinks you are capable of 3betting light it can effect his perception of your range.

Avatar
Carlos
Atlanta, Ga
Member Moderator
Forum Posts: 778
Member Since:
October 21, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
January 31, 2014 - 6:44 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

True. I dont think my image would indicate I'd fold on this river so he shouldn't show up with a ton of air when he bets it given the stack sizes. Maybe some but not a ton. A lot of good players in his shoes would make that turn bluff and then save the decent stack he has left to preserve his tournament life. Then there are those who may realize their marginal hand is not good and decide to turn it into a bluff. Seems more likely than pure air. I gotta do a better job of noting what dudes do with marginal hands on the river.

WizardZur
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 172
Member Since:
November 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
January 31, 2014 - 7:50 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I wouldn't be so quick to fold there.  With antes involved a good regular is going to be raising in his position with a fairly wide range.  The HUD tool could be a little misleading because most good players start tight early then get progressively more aggressive once the antes are involved meaning he may start a tournament 10/5  but he could be as aggro as 35/25 now, to make the average be 23/16.  However, he is likely much more aggressive than that in this spot imo.  When you 3bet him, he has to call 1800 more to win a pot that contains more than 5K so I also think he will call with a wide range as well.  In fact, he will call 75% of the time according to his HUD, so basically he only folds his pure junk when he is 3bet.  He certainly calls with hands such as pairs, J10s, QJs, KQ, A10+.  When you don't lead out on the flop to me it looks like you're either going for pot control with a medium pair that missed the flop (eg 99) or you have some sort of draw and for some reason you don't want to get it in.  If you had complete air, you would probably cbet bluff, and if you had an overpair you would probably bet to protect your hand.  You could also be trapping with a set, so I understand his check behind, there's not a lot of value to him betting there even if he hit a piece because it would get worse to fold and he could be behind.  Then once you check again on the turn, your hand looks very weak.  You failed to bet twice in a 3 bet pot, which to me looks purely like pot control, so at that point I would bet if I had any piece of the flop.  His bet sizing on the turn looks as if he is sizing just enough to get you to fold and if you don't fold to still have enough left so that maybe he can bluff you off your hand on the river if you call on the turn.  I think the pot is already sufficiently large, and there are a lot of draws out there, so that if he had something strong he would just get it in on the turn.  It would be an overbet but it doesn't make sense for him to price the draws in.  Different bet sizes have a different impact on different people but I know that when I bluff I would size it the way he is, that way he gets two barrells at it.  Yet most likely when you check to him on the turn he bet because he had some minor piece of it and you checked to him twice!  When you called turn, I don't think he knows that you have AK, you would probably be calling with a weaker pair than that and some draws as well.  It's not as if you only ever 3bet AK, AA, KK…I'm sure there are some 3bet bluffs/3bet light in there.  The math says you should call, I think.  AQ, A10, etc. beat you with two pair, KJ beats you, and sets beat you.  But there are much more hands that you beat: single pairs involving the Queen (KQ stands out), single pairs involving the 10 are less likely but possible, weaker pairs that he called with preflop and didnt make a set, and missed draws.  You are assuming that a moderate strength hand such as KQ would just check back, but I'm not so sure.  He could be turning his hand into a bluff and it's possible given your passive line that he thinks he is value betting thin. I think some people are willing to turn their hands into a bluff here.  You are given close to 2:1 on the call and I think you're actually ahead > 50% of the time so I make the call unless I had a specific read otherwise.         

CCuster 911
Delaware

TPE Pro
Forum Posts: 187
Member Since:
September 28, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
February 4, 2014 - 1:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
1

I am def calling river here.  We are way underrped, and we can have a lot of weak gutshot+draws in our river range(perceived).  I am also not sure how many hands outside of AT we are behind, occasioanly KJ.  I dont think he ever has AQ.  He could easily be attempting to value AJ, or bluffing missed suited conncetors like 89/78.  I dont expect himm to check many sets on flop, so I keep coming back to AT being msot likely, with KJ a clsoe second, and maybea random A6 thrown in.

 

We are getting great odds to call here, so I cant really imagine folding. 

 

I also default to betting flop, but as played we DEF need to bet turn, as he can have so many gut shots(or draws) we can easily value.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

MadBaltic
Estonia
Small Stakes Grinder
Members
Forum Posts: 80
Member Since:
May 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
February 4, 2014 - 4:22 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

CCuster 911 said:

I am def calling river here.  We are way underrped, and we can have a lot of weak gutshot+draws in our river range(perceived).  I am also not sure how many hands outside of AT we are behind, occasioanly KJ.  I dont think he ever has AQ.  He could easily be attempting to value AJ, or bluffing missed suited conncetors like 89/78.  I dont expect himm to check many sets on flop, so I keep coming back to AT being msot likely, with KJ a clsoe second, and maybea random A6 thrown in.

 

We are getting great odds to call here, so I cant really imagine folding. 

 

I also default to betting flop, but as played we DEF need to bet turn, as he can have so many gut shots(or draws) we can easily value.

Seems about right

WizardZur
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 172
Member Since:
November 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
February 4, 2014 - 10:35 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

CCuster 911 said:

I am def calling river here.  We are way underrped, and we can have a lot of weak gutshot+draws in our river range(perceived).  I am also not sure how many hands outside of AT we are behind, occasioanly KJ.  I dont think he ever has AQ.  He could easily be attempting to value AJ, or bluffing missed suited conncetors like 89/78.  I dont expect himm to check many sets on flop, so I keep coming back to AT being msot likely, with KJ a clsoe second, and maybea random A6 thrown in.

 

We are getting great odds to call here, so I cant really imagine folding. 

 

I also default to betting flop, but as played we DEF need to bet turn, as he can have so many gut shots(or draws) we can easily value.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say, he just said it more succinctly 🙂

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
8 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1