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(1 votes) 
October 21, 2012
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TheRealTreenom is very aggro. I had seen him shove over a late position open once before. Obviously KB is capable of shoving light as well if he thinks I'm too far out of line.
Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: Killingbird (15525).
Seat 2: TheRealTreenom (25790).
Seat 4: REGGIEWHITE (62220).
Seat 5: pinkpikachu (44876).
Seat 6: Rick Grimes (52157).
Seat 7: norcalho (35613).
Seat 8: oddsgod22 (73041).
Seat 9: AllADreAAm (26208).
Player Killingbird has small blind (750)
Player TheRealTreenom has big blind (1500)
Player oddsgod22 received card: [ Kd: ]
Player oddsgod22 received card: [ Qc: ]
Player REGGIEWHITE folds
Player pinkpikachu folds
Player Rick Grimes folds
Player norcalho folds
Player oddsgod22 raises (3000)
Player AllADreAAm folds
Player Killingbird folds
Player TheRealTreenom allin (24140)
Player oddsgod22 calls (22640)
I used to open shove this spot but was told to just raise call instead. I think KQo has this villain crushed so my play was probably a fist pump vs him, but I'm wondering if a 3x open would be better here vs slightly tighter villains to signal that I am calling a shove and deter some of them from shoving weak Axs in this spot.
January 15, 2013
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Seeing this in real time (was railing you), and watching kb nit it up (he was also at my table previous to yours), I thought this was essentially a sb to bb play, which I think most certainly shoving was greater ev than raising and calling a shove.
October 21, 2012
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I dont think shoving is greater EV than raise calling if we think the guy would reship KJs or QJs but not call a shove with both of them. It's definitely lower variance though.
October 21, 2012
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Glad you are here though because you can attest to my point.
If that's me, you have to shove or raise bigger with KQo because as you know, I'm crazy enough to shove A5o there, lol. I dont think I would shove it over a bigger open (unless, it 3x was his standard) because of the hit to my perceived FE. I think the opening size matters less if I have a suited A.
January 15, 2013
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Yes, it certainaly can be villian dependent, and the bb villian in question is a reg (and not a fishy reg). It was just that I watcheed KB fold like 30 hands in arow at my table, so I approached this as if he wasn't going to put his chips in without a monster ,so you are left with the bb . As for him, I believe that your reasoning is accrate, but there is a little voice inside of me that just screams SHOVE in these spots (for the record, I would be balanced here, since I would also shove premiums as well). Probably a leak, I know.
At any rate, hope you are back at it tonight!
July 3, 2010
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3X'ing also eliminates the hands you dominate, though …
You're still at 30 bb if you r/c and lose vs. an agg player. If a reg thinks you can open light I really doubt they look down at a hand like JTs and other similar hands and fold them.
Not sure I'd have an open jamming range here unless it was some sort of bubble situation. Open jamming doesn't seem very good. I'm not able to get there and think of reasons to justify it over other plays.
October 21, 2012
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FkCoolers said:
3X'ing also eliminates the hands you dominate, though …
You're still at 30 bb if you r/c and lose vs. an agg player. If a reg thinks you can open light I really doubt they look down at a hand like JTs and other similar hands and fold them.
Not sure I'd have an open jamming range here unless it was some sort of bubble situation. Open jamming doesn't seem very good. I'm not able to get there and think of reasons to justify it over other plays.
Hmm this may be a good point. Im definitely shoving KJs and QJs over a 3x but maybe not KJo or QJo which I would shove over a 2x. I think my post here is looking for a way to avoid variance when we are probably at least 50% vs their entire reshipping range. As stated earlier, I could do this by shoving but then I am probably under 50% vs their entire calling range.
If I want to play tournaments, I guess I have to get used to flipping coins for a living. I dont know if I can, so I'll mix in a bunch of cash games as well. I can consistently find pretty solid edges there with no blind pressure.
August 8, 2013
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I'm confused, why would you open ship 50bb here? Just raise like normal? Raising KQo here is exploitable for sure with those stacks in the blinds but there's nothing you can do about it. Just raise and if they ship I would just fold. Yeah its nitty but you are taking the wrong end of a flip in most cases. Then do it again, is KQo in your range to raise call 25k? Then I guess do that. I would rather raise/call with A9o here than KQ as he is shipping Ax as a huge part of his range along with pp. Give him a 25% range pre and its 50/50. Just meh. Hate these situations.
January 15, 2013
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AJLV said:
I'm confused, why would you open ship 50bb here? Just raise like normal? Raising KQo here is exploitable for sure with those stacks in the blinds but there's nothing you can do about it. Just raise and if they ship I would just fold. Yeah its nitty but you are taking the wrong end of a flip in most cases. Then do it again, is KQo in your range to raise call 25k? Then I guess do that. I would rather raise/call with A9o here than KQ as he is shipping Ax as a huge part of his range along with pp. Give him a 25% range pre and its 50/50. Just meh. Hate these situations.
Because he is only shipping 17 bbs effective, and the sb has played zero hands at his table….
October 21, 2012
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AJLV said:
I'm confused, why would you open ship 50bb here? Just raise like normal? Raising KQo here is exploitable for sure with those stacks in the blinds but there's nothing you can do about it. Just raise and if they ship I would just fold. Yeah its nitty but you are taking the wrong end of a flip in most cases. Then do it again, is KQo in your range to raise call 25k? Then I guess do that. I would rather raise/call with A9o here than KQ as he is shipping Ax as a huge part of his range along with pp. Give him a 25% range pre and its 50/50. Just meh. Hate these situations.
When you look at the entire range of hands that will be reshipped every time, KQo does significantly better than A9o. Not everyone is shoving small offsuit aces, but everyone is shoving 99-JJ. In this particlarly case, I think they are both raise calls because I believe this villain is shoving the small offsuit aces as well as hands like KTo and QTo.
Another important point is that, it's profitable to be on the wrong end of a flip when you have dead money in the pot and it doesn't even end you're tournament life when you lose. I've recently realized that you cant escape variance in MTTs if you want to win the tournament and not just mincash. You have to embrace the flips and just simply win em. Easy game.
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