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September 14, 2014
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Hey Hey!
$8buyin – blinds $75/$150 (20)
hero stack $4300
v stack – $4,050
folds to hero in the CO , hero m/r 300, BTN 3-bet shoves , sb & bb fold , action back to hero?
There’s $4,715 in the pot , hero has to call $3,730 , we are getting 1.2 to 1 on the call, so we are going to need 45.5% equity to break even.
I have no reads on this opponent but i’ll give v a range of 55+ ,ATs+, KTs+, QTs+,JTs+, ATo+, KJo+. Does this range seem okay? if its tighter or wider then feel free to say.
against this range hero has 44.1% equity, which makes it a very close fold. Though the thing is we want to do better then break even , so I reckon in this spot we are going to need 48% equity.
lets say we were on a tough table instead and u think most players are playing optimally, would you call?
This table that i was on was really bad , most were weak players that are easy to play against, so i like folding our hand here given the odds we are getting and the opponents we are up against.
cheers.
June 11, 2012
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hey,
most villains are reshoving unbalanced especially in spots like this.
further what are the stacks of the blinds? why does villain not 3b/call?
with these two facts i would assume you can remove the top part of his range.
most likely he reshoves something like 22-TT, AT,AJ,KTs+,QTs+,JTs
guess JJ-AA and AQ+ he is 3b/calling
to your second question:
most player are reshoving way to tight and calling reshoves way to tight. even the very good once.
but yeah without stats at a tough table i am calling as close to optimal as possible
cheers
September 14, 2014
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SB $16,000 BB$3,000.
also do you think we should add hands like 78s 89s, T9s in their range?
July 15, 2015
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When you are at a tougher table or against a tougher field, then this can be an argument to go with thinner edges than you normally might, for example putting your tourney life at risk for a few percent edge. However, even against a tough field, I don't think you will ever want to choose a play that you know to be -ev (like in your first example).
In the hand example, I would not assume a player is shoving quite this wide in an $8 tournament until I have evidence that he is active and aggressive. I think the re-shove range you gave is reasonable, but there is a subset of the field in these tournaments (at least on the US sites) that will never consider shoving a hand like JTs or KJo. So I would prefer to have prior evidence to corroborate villain is capable of shoving wide before feeling too confident about assigning this range.
September 14, 2014
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I agree botswanaNick, however if we were getting 45% equity (break even) on a tough table you'll be more inclined to call , even so its only just marginally ev+ right?
July 15, 2015
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I guess I am a little confused with your terminology. When you say the spot is break even to call at 45%, I assume you mean it is break even from a chip EV standpoint, right? I think, in a tournament, it is never correct to call in a spot where you cEV is literally 0 when your tournament life is on the line (in this case you won't quite be all in if called but you will be crippled if you lose). Even early in a tournament, your tournament life does have some value, so ICM should always push a neutral cEV decision to a negative real money EV decision. And we always want to avoid negative real money EV calls, even at a tough table.
What is correct is that the tougher the table, the smaller +cEV spots we should be willing to take. If we are at a juicy table, we might pass up a spot that might have a +5% cEV if a big percentage of our stack will be at risk, as we know we will find better spots later against the weak competition. At a tougher table, it is easy to imagine that we would take this spot and be happy for any +EV.
Does this answer the question?
September 14, 2014
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yeah it does , thanks 🙂
what i meant with breakeven is that if we were going to need 45% equity on the call, and we have 45% equity , that's pretty much break even. On a tough table you would call here but on a table with weaker players u may pass it up as its only marginally ev+ you would want like 48% equity instead on a table with weaker players thats what im getting at.
an example would be for instance if your tourney life is on the line and your on the big blind faced with a shove from the sb and you need 40% equity. On a tough table with most players playing optmially , you may call with the bottom of your calling range even so its only marginally ev+ at 40%. At a weaker table you may pass it up and fold the bottom of your calling range because u think your better then most of them. If you've got like a big stack of say 60bb and someone shoves for 10bb from the sb , you can call pretty wide there from the bb in that spot , whether thats a tough table or not.
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