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Why is it bad to limp with a 10bb stack?
thedonator716
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August 26, 2012 - 8:14 pm
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Ok Ok I know it's bad. I have a friend that I play with alot at local live games and I can't seem to get it through his head that limping with small stacks is bad. His arguement is that he doesn't want to risk his tournament life by shoving when he can out play the other player post flop. I'm not real good with words and I'm having trouble explaining the reasons behind why it's bad. It seems like such a basic thing to me now and I've heard people talk about how bad it is but you never see anyone talk about why. So here's your chance. And before anyone asks I'm already talking to him about TPE and I may be buying him a subscription myself. 

hurricanejeff
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August 26, 2012 - 11:06 pm
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because you miss out on the enormous amount of chips you pick up by stealing the antes/blinds….you also give your opponent the chance to outflop you, and you also can't afford to lose chips ever with under 10bb.  There are countless reasons as to why limping is terrible, but if he doesn't open his mind to switch his style of play he is pretty much saying he won't learn anything and won't get better.

IsplashRolls
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August 27, 2012 - 7:40 am
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outplaying people with 9bb postflop? lol

 

yeah picking up blinds and antes is definitely the best reason + people in live mtts call shoves incorrectly(way to tight) so you can rebuild your stack very fast by shoving 4-5 times and pick up blinds+antes.

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MediaBLITZ
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August 29, 2012 - 11:14 am
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Guppy has it right – he can't outplay his opponent on the flop because he's not a threat.  One standard raise/re-raise and he's pot committed.  Worst case scenario for opponent is losing 9 more BB. No real threat.  The hands I might fold against

A bigger stack can easily widen his starting hand versus your buddy because of effective size (10BB) and take a shot at knocking him out.  Your friend's limp is twofold – a.) Hope he is not repopped and b.) hit the flop.  He is just looking to get lucky for a BB (Spent and probably won).  The odds of both of those happening are not in his favor (Around 30% – or over 2 to 1).  You want to try to get those 10BB into at least a coinflip situation if you can and push it all in.  He is throwing money away twice to make it work once  –  funny it never really works out that way though. 

The time for speculation hands passeed him a long time ago – he has two moves and you know what they are.

Another consideration, especially final table – his limp is inviting other players into the pot.  Let's say four other guys jump in on this limp – most of them (or all)just looking to knock him out of there and one BB is not 10 percent of their stack so they decide to gang up on him.  Even if he has AA – his limp put him in the position of his monster hand being only 56% to win – whereas a shove versus a single opponent he would be 85%.  He just cut his winning percentage by 30% to limp.  What does he do on the flop, turn, river?  Since the objective of the other guys is to knock him out he is going to have reveal his hand sooner or later.  He checks and is going to be shocked to see everyone else check behind.  You think that turn card could help one of these four guys with maybe a set?  Trips?  Straight?  Flush? A big draw?  He is just continuing to screw himself by refusing to shove his stack so he can outplay people.

He has got to find the faith and courage that, unlike the forward pass in football, there are three outcomes and two of them are good.  He either picks up the blinds, doubles his stack or is sent packing.  Grow a pair and go for it.surprised

 

I'm sure Guppy found it so ridiculous he couldn't even begin to articulate reasons and that's why his post is so short wink

Turbulence
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August 29, 2012 - 12:23 pm
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this thread could be expanded to explore the mentality of a limper. I'm constantly baffelled by the people that limp then call themselves allin with hands like JT, KJ, 89 ect ect. They have obvioulsy limped 'to see a flop', thinking their hand is a good one, but not wanting to raise it. Then they get all indignent at being raised / put allin, effectively telling them their hand is second best at least, but they call anyway. If it wasnt good enough to raise how is it now good enough to call off your tourney life? Maybe your friend can explain this one….so we can understand.

aka Prophead340 aka Prophead2000 aka Turbulence_1

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gigantorrr
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September 4, 2012 - 8:36 pm
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i limp sometimes with 10bb's…  but i think its only acceptable when you have the intentions of shoving on ANY flop, i think this works better than open shoving!

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