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Hi Guys, just joined. Looking for some feedback on this hand. Initially I thought the over pot size flop bet was to push me off the draw, and by shipping back I had a chance to push him off, and if not I was 55/45 ish to hit the flush but no luck. I hate stacking off 45 BB here, but have been finishing too many tourneys barely itm. Trying to be more aggressive: Is this not the spot? Not the way? Looking forward to your thoughts. Thx
Poker Stars $3.00 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t200/t400 Blinds + t50 – 9 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge
LESTER121 (BTN): BB = 17.8, t7135
RaistlinAzul (SB): BB = 72.2, t28870
Steveg75 (BB): BB = 14.7, t5887
robant (UTG): BB = 63.8, t25508
gerarsamba (UTG+1): BB = 53.9, t21565
DBA*jeff44 (UTG+2): BB = 20.1, t8045
DuaneK (MP1): BB = 16.7, t6665
rocknaces605 (MP2): BB = 65.8, t26330
cashonly1111 (CO): BB = 45.0, t18013
Pre Flop: (t1050) cashonly1111 is CO with J
A
1 fold, gerarsamba raises to t800, 3 folds, cashonly1111 raises to t1588, 3 folds, gerarsamba calls t788
Flop: (t4226) K
3 9 (2 players)
gerarsamba bets t5000, cashonly1111 raises to t16375 all in, gerarsamba calls t11375
Turn: (t36976) 7 (2 players – 1 is all in)
River: (t36976) 8 (2 players – 1 is all in)
June 11, 2010
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I can only tell you how I play, and in this case I would float the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. In a lot of cases if you float the flop you will get to see the turn and river for free (if you so choose), but I think with the nut flush draw I want to get the see some cards for the lowest possible price. Once you do that you can see what happens, but I don't think it is advisable to just straight up jam it here this deep on the draw. His bet says he has a K with a weak kicker to me (maybe even caught the 3 with it) so betting is just going to get expensive and not get him to go away, I think the implied odds here are huge though so try to get the river card and re-evaluate fwiw.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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I'm not a big fan of the small pf 3 bet. I'd make it more if you are going to 3 bet. Say 2155. With your sizing, you give just about everything the odds to call you here and then you are bloating a pot. It's ok to build a pot when in position but you also lose your fold equity with this bet. The guy is UTG so without any reads we can give him a little credit for a hand here.
I'm not sure he's actually overbetting the pot here with anything but a K (not AK though cuz that should be reraising you pf) or a set but you do have outs and that's an awful large pot. I tend to stack off most of the time here so it may be a leak of mine but I don't mind the jam.
June 11, 2010
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RonFezBuddy said:
I'm not a big fan of the small pf 3 bet. I'd make it more if you are going to 3 bet. Say 2155. With your sizing, you give just about everything the odds to call you here and then you are bloating a pot. It's ok to build a pot when in position but you also lose your fold equity with this bet. The guy is UTG so without any reads we can give him a little credit for a hand here.
I'm not sure he's actually overbetting the pot here with anything but a K (not AK though cuz that should be reraising you pf) or a set but you do have outs and that's an awful large pot. I tend to stack off most of the time here so it may be a leak of mine but I don't mind the jam.
I have been working on trying not to get myself into situations where I stack off with these types of draws and they miss. I agree it is tempting as all hell to push with the nut flush draw, the problem is it is still just a draw at this point so you are more or less proceeding with air (strong air, but air nonetheless). I may be losing a lot of value on these hands when I hit as most opponents tend to be observant enough to notice when you wake up with 3 suited on the board, but being a little more conservative with these draws is helping me a lot early in tourneys.
You have 45% versus KQ/KJish hand. Shoving can never be bad. Also he might have a lower flushdraw like QT or something.
I probably flat preflop because we have to assume this guy has a hand and we wouldnt want him to 4bet us and make us fold. On the flop when he fires out we should put in a big check raise and then play from there. If he repops I get it in on the flop. If he calls we evaluate the turn. Based on how you played it and the size of the pot if we call the flop bet we cant get away and jamming is the optimal play.
July 3, 2010
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SittingDucks said:
You have 45% versus KQ/KJish hand. Shoving can never be bad. Also he might have a lower flushdraw like QT or something.
Are you 3 betting or flatting pre?
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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JDOG1645 said:
I probably flat preflop because we have to assume this guy has a hand and we wouldnt want him to 4bet us and make us fold. On the flop when he fires out we should put in a big check raise and then play from there. If he repops I get it in on the flop. If he calls we evaluate the turn. Based on how you played it and the size of the pot if we call the flop bet we cant get away and jamming is the optimal play.
I really don't mind a 3 bet here because you get a lot of credit for raising an UTG plus your AJs plays well against his flatting range. He 5 bets AK and maybe flats AQ but I think the rest of his range that flats are smaller pairs where your AJ is not often dominated when an A flops.
FkCoolers said:
SittingDucks said:
You have 45% versus KQ/KJish hand. Shoving can never be bad. Also he might have a lower flushdraw like QT or something.
Are you 3 betting or flatting pre?
Flatting
– AJs plays really well and flops well (similar in strength as f.e. KQs)
– 3-betting is turning your hand in a bluff and I think AJs/AQ is too good for turning it into a bluff. You beat a lot of his aces. It would be different with A9 which is dominated easier by his range. If you 3bet he will fold hands like A9/AT/AJ (maybe AQ) so when you have A9 there are more hands have YOU beat that will fold. On the other hand, raising AJ causes him to fold hands that YOU beat.
meh I see your point RFB…but Im still torn on torn on it.
Awesome points to consider. I definitely didn't need to 3 bet pf there ,and all I was trying to do was build the pot, didnt consider the position it left me in. And the size of it truly wouldn't scare anyone so it didnt have much of an effect. I snap jammed this too without considering many of the thoughts above. Not the worst play I have ever made but definately could have played it better from the onset. Thanks to all for your analysis!!
The Push/ Fold aspect of my game is in need of serious training. Can anyone recommend any of the videos in particular that run into late stage push/fold scenarios???
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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yah 3 bet needs to be more and i dont mind flat because of the early position of the pf raiser if the raiser was late position it would be an easy 3 bet. if it was Ak you most likely would have been 4 bet pre. but i dont hate jam as i play hands like this alot because i think that my ace is live as well and if hes on Kq we have 11 clubs and 3 aces so we have 14 outs twice thats 28 in a 52 card deck making you slight favourite and he can possibly fold KQ if villain has a set spike a club. its a good spot for a big semi-bluff
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