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Hey Guys,
I am currently at the point of frustration when it comes to poker. This site is my 5th poker training site that I have been a member of in the 2 years that I have been playing poker. I think that I know how to play pretty solid poker and how to make good decisions, but I think that I have finally figured out a big problem. Proper poker strategies do not work in micro donk stakes. Fish just do not fold, ever. And yes I agree that this SHOULD be a good thing. But it isn’t. Sometimes you just want to take down the pot or win the blinds and antes. In micro stakes it does not work that way. You end up firing off your whole stack on a very strong hand, just to get sucked out on by a fish who played an absolute garbage hand. They do not respect 3 bets or c-bets. They just call, call, call or shove. When blinds are 25/50 and I bet 150 pre-flop, I have to deal with donkeys shoving 4k over the top of me. And then I have to sit there and look down at my QQ and think to myself that I probably need to fold, but on the other hand I think to myself what if I am passing up a chance to get an easy double up with QQ against some donkey who shoves any 2 cards? So I call and always lose the flip. That’s not poker. I want to play proper poker. Im sick of this all in garbage when players still have 100 BB’s.
So basically my problem is that I do not have a large bankroll and everyone always preaches bankroll management. But by practicing good bankroll management that means that I have to play $2 or $4 games with the micro shove artist donks who suckout. So how high of a buy-in do I need to go to where I can get on some tables where I can 3x and c-bet flops and my opponents will actually take at least 5 seconds to THINK about the possibility of their Ace rag or J3 hand being beat instead of just shoving 4k stacks into a 400 chip pot? Fundamental poker does not work when everyone else is playing donkey poker. When you outplay an opponent with perfect bet sizing techniques or timely check raises they need to have enough common sense to find the freaking FOLD button and move on to the next hand. Right now I am having to play alongside micro donks who tell me everyday that A 10 offsuit is a favorite against KK. Lol. WTF? Im sick of it.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Trav
my suggestion is this although im sure you are a decent player. however sounds like you need more knowledge in stack sizing and icm and varaince low limit donks are a blessing ,some of these calls plays ect maybe correct you may just not understand the whys and whats . what your going threw is called varaince it happenes to everrrrrrryone of use. excample i play around 70 to 95 180 man sngs a day i often have days were im down 700 ect but the very next day im up 2k what it all boils down to is a roi at the end of a session with volume. to make money in low limits you need volume to out way the varaince i run around 2000 games a month running around 16% roi right now i hope to hit 30% soon but trust me its all varaince. my advice is dont bounce around from game to game getting bummed stick with 1 game sngs low limit multi ect and learn to beat it over a period of say 1000 games if you have a poss roi after that point then work on repeating it and plugging leaks to increase your overall roi .and if your not beating the games your playing then you shouldnt be playing them and by beating them i mean a volume of them 10 to 50 to 500 really means nothing 100 game down swings are very very commen my last 1500 game session i had 3 of them just focus on the volume. just so you now depending on the level your playing low limit turbos multi player games are high varaince games means youll have highs and lows , if your looking for lower varaince games stay away from the turbos for now tell you have a good understanding of icm push fold type of play trust me there is a method to the madness .just my thoughts hope it helps. also forgot to mention bankroll to be playing the 4 buyin micros i recommend a 500 bankroll at the 12 buyin level i recommend 2400 it really all depends on the game your playing turbos, multi player ect but never ever break the bankroll rule its the most important to live by , and as far you go i highly suggest you get a lesson in icm then you will understand why someone maybe shoving ect and maybe able to explot that and make a few shoves in spots your self were as you might be folding now when you really shouldnt be do to the fold equity involved ect , hope that helps
Yeah I have a good understanding of ICM and push/fold. I just OPR’ed myself and over 1447 games I have a 21% ROI. But yeah you are right I do need to stick with just one game because I am all over the place. One moment Im playing the $3 rebuy, the next the $11 forty grand guarantee, and even occassionally the $55 nightly seventy, and then back down to 25 cent SNG donkfests…you are right I do need to focus on one game and beat it instead of jumping around.
By the way, how do you find the time to play so many games per day? Some of us have to work for a living. I want to be able to play full time for a living even if it is grinding out $4 180 SNG’s, but how the hell do you get the money to get started? The rent and bills don’t stop while I am trying to figure out how to win at poker.
i would recommend not even thinking about full time until your beating the game month after month and have atleast 6 months bills rent money aside with a pretty healthly bankroll, to get the money to get started i deposited 500 3 times before i took off years ago but if i were starting now id start were ever i could even if i had to play 12 tabling 25 cent micro 360 mans as the money added up up over the weeks i would then jump up to the 2 buyins ect never breaking my bankroll rules. if i had a bad month theres no shame in dropping back down in levels tell things turn around again and then just treat it like a ladder the harder you work the more you make and the faster youll reach youll goals eventually ending up at a level were your comfortable and can start pulling a monthly income . but heres a few tips i use table ninja on poker stars it allows me to play allllllllot of games very easlly and so in doing this say if you were to stick to 1 game like 4 buyin 180 mans you set your bankroll at around 500 and get real used to multi tableing making fast actions start out with 4 tables and when u get comfortable just anther 1 so on and so on i rember when i paniced when running 4 tables now i can run 12 pretty easly so in doing that you should or could be running 30 to 40 games a night as kind of a part time job. thats how i thought of it any way as money started adding up i then took alittle here and there and treated myself on a few multis on the weekends ect trying to get a bigger score but i always did that with my winnings i never took from my roll and just have patience a score will come but intil then stick to a soild sctruture a winning formula as it were and focus on a game that you can beat and work on repeating it. as your money grows to around 2400 you then can jump up to the 12 buyin 180 mans ect ect , and play about 40000 of those with a 25 % roi and youll have a nice income, thats pretty much how they do it VOLUUUUUME IS THE KEY , but you can get that table ninja on a free 30 day trail id recommend you try it if your trying to increase the amount of games you play. if you want more info on it you can find videos on youtube giving you the run threw on table ninja
and my advice you really have to love the game to be a full time player it can be a real ass beater 99% of the time like they say its a tuff way to make an easy living i play 95 games a day thats a 10 hour day for me most days and alot of those are losing sessions it can be a very stressful gig at times so i would really recommend you put some serious thought into it before ever going fulltime hope this all helps ,
Yeah man I appreciate all of the info. I love poker and definitely want to play full time. I just want the idiots who make calls just for the sake of calling to go away. 10 hours a day playing a game I love is nothing compared to 10 hours a day in the service industry working face to face with idiot customers.
Just read the first post, but you say it isn’t a good thing. “Sometimes, you just want to take down the pot”
I would say adjust your game, if you have terrible players at the table who are pushing buttons and not thinking, then STOP trying to take down the pot. Wait for a hand, get paid, rinse and repeat until you can rub fitties on your titties.
you don’t want the people youre up against to think. if volume is a problem, don’t play big mtts, just play 90 and 180s, keep getting your money in good, and don’t get frustrated. you’ll be a winner long term, but the long term is way longer than you think.
Daniel Negreanu says it best right here…(this is for those of you who are having problems understanding exactly what it is that I am whining about here)
Try to steer clear of the 2.20 on Friday nights at FTP.
Full Tilt Poker Game #20844328086: $2 + $0.20 Tournament (160218871), Table 47 – 50/100 – No Limit Hold’em – 21:35:04 ET – 2010/05/14
Seat 1: FTP-IM-001 (13,240)
Seat 2: Cheerio83 (760)
Seat 3: maitre anubis (2,959)
Seat 4: Bswett86 (7,650)
Seat 5: lainie1072 (2,760)
Seat 6: M0bSc3n3 (7,490)
FTP-IM-001 posts the small blind of 50
Cheerio83 posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lainie1072 [Qh Ah]
maitre anubis has 15 seconds left to act
maitre anubis calls 100
Bswett86 has been disconnected
Bswett86 has 15 seconds left to act
Bswett86 folds
Bswett86 has reconnected
lainie1072 raises to 400
M0bSc3n3 has 15 seconds left to act
M0bSc3n3 folds
FTP-IM-001 folds
Cheerio83 folds
maitre anubis calls 300
*** FLOP *** [3d Qc 4c]
maitre anubis has 15 seconds left to act
maitre anubis bets 850
lainie1072 raises to 2,360, and is all in
maitre anubis calls 1,510
lainie1072 shows [Qh Ah]
maitre anubis shows [Ad 2c]
*** TURN *** [3d Qc 4c] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [3d Qc 4c Tc] [5h]
lainie1072 shows a pair of Queens
maitre anubis shows a straight, Five high
maitre anubis wins the pot (5,670) with a straight, Five high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5,670 | Rake 0
Board: [3d Qc 4c Tc 5h]
Seat 1: FTP-IM-001 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Cheerio83 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: maitre anubis showed [Ad 2c] and won (5,670) with a straight, Five high
Seat 4: Bswett86 didn’t bet (folded)
Seat 5: lainie1072 showed [Qh Ah] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 6: M0bSc3n3 (button) didn’t bet (folded)
idk about you guys, but i really like getting it in with 70% equity.
plessis204 said:
idk about you guys, but i really like getting it in with 70% equity.
Oh, no doubt about it, which is why I play poker. I understand that, in the long run, it is these kinds of players that make it extremely profitable. These plays from donkeys build nice stacks for later rounds when the players get better. But you do wonder just what these guys are thinking. I mean, in a comical way, I would just like to hear what is going through the minds of some guys.
lainie1072 said:
plessis204 said:
idk about you guys, but i really like getting it in with 70% equity.
Oh, no doubt about it, which is why I play poker. I understand that, in the long run, it is these kinds of players that make it extremely profitable. These plays from donkeys build nice stacks for later rounds when the players get better. But you do wonder just what these guys are thinking. I mean, in a comical way, I would just like to hear what is going through the minds of some guys.
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