View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Where are we on tactical folds?
Percyscores
Flounder
Members
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
November 3, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
June 10, 2015 - 7:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

This situation has come up several times in recent weeks so I present this as an example:

 

PokerStars, 180MTT, $4.10+$0.40 No Limit – Level III (25/50, 6 ante)

9-max Seat #3 is the button

 

Seat 1: chipmaniac87 (1167 in chips)

Seat 2: Rus_us8 (1612 in chips)

Seat 3: TommyCrown (3863 in chips, 77bb)

Seat 4: Martalas300 (3946 in chips, 79bb)

Seat 5: JennaTILTson (2535 in chips)

Seat 6: Niktopdollar (1354 in chips)

Seat 7: 1sualchan1 (1105 in chips)

Seat 8: ze_pilas (1592 in chips)

Seat 9: bollie blauw (1061 in chips)

Martalas300: posts small blind 25

JennaTILTson: posts big blind 50

 

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to TommyCrown [Kh Ks]

 

Niktopdollar: folds

1sualchan1: folds

(MP) ze_pilas: raises 50 to 100 (Stats after 489 hands, 21/17 – MP 30%PFR, 3B 9.1)

bollie blauw: folds

chipmaniac87: folds

Rus_us8: folds

(BTN) TommyCrown: raises 155 to 255 (37 hands at table, PFR 13%, 3B 0%)

(SB) Martalas300: calls 230 (Stats after 37 hands, 43/6, donk bet 63%/8)

JennaTILTson: folds

ze_pilas: calls 155

 

Pot: 869 *FLOP * [8c 6d 7s]

Martalas300: bets 1300 (26bb)

ze_pilas: folds

 

For background I doubled up in hand 21/37 by raising a MP limper from the BTN with QTs and flopping a flush to his set, so I may seem a little maverick even though I haven’t played a significant hand since then and villian may perceive me as having a wide enough range not to hit this flop too often.

 

I will assume there is no value in just calling here, as calling and folding the turn seems a disaster, whilst if he has a draw he looks committed and I should get full value now. Additionally, he has bet into 2 players so assume some equity and he did call a 3 bet so I am only considering suited non pairs. Therefore I would put his hands into 3 categories: I’m crushing, I’m crushed, Combo-Draws which I will assign 1/3rd each, and although I may not be exhaustive in the following hand selection I hope it is representative.

 

I’m crushing – TT, JJ, QQ, A8s and one GS/OC bluff JTs – KKeq = 82.05%

I’m crushed – 88,66,77,87s,76s,86s,T9s,54s,AA(slow played but now concerned) – KKeq = 12.53%

Combo-Draws – 65s,98s,99,55,A9s,A5s – KKeq = 58.15%

 

Total KKeq = 50.91%

 

So against a fairly representative range of hands I’m flipping whilst pot odds, assuming my only option is to gii and he never folds, is 3863 into prospective pot of 8073 for 47.85%.

 

As this is so marginal, it’s relatively early in the tournament and I have a healthy enough stack, should this be a tactical fold even though I believe I have the best hand currently? Even if we take out some c/r candidates from his range 88,T9s,98s we only improve to 52.01%?

 

If we are folding, what pot odds or stack depth would folk require at this stage of the tournament for risk/reward?    

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
June 10, 2015 - 10:44 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

If you were actually 50.91% here needing 49%, I wouldn't mind folding. It seems like all you did was add 82.05 + 12.53 + 53.13 and then divide by 3 to get 50.91, though, which is not the right way to do it. There are more combos of the hands that you're crushing out there than there are hands that you crush (it's easier to flop an overpair than a set). Try putting Villain's range into an equity calculator like Slice and see where you actually stand.

Percyscores
Flounder
Members
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
November 3, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
June 11, 2015 - 7:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I did put it through slice first and then split it out to show thinking but it stays similar… between 48-52% depending on how many draws I put in or whether I remove some hands like c/r candidates… it moves towards 65% only if we assume he will never do this with set or straight, which has been my dominant line of thought in these situation, but ultimately exploitable I guess… just as I would not want to coin flip +70bb early in a tournament pre-flop, I wanted to see what thoughts were on post flop situations like this which are similar… I think most of the time we do have the best hand on the flop because players would c/r super strong hands but there’s never much in it and a tactical fold seems appropriate…

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
38 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1