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What's going on here? Can you range the players?
cousteer
Playing The Prelims
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December 13, 2012 - 11:49 pm
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This hand confused me.  Although I've only played a few hands with the villian and don't have a read, Sharkscope suggests he's very profitable.  Conversely, he wouldn't have much of a read on me, however, my stats are appalling.  I'd be interested in your assessment on both the villian's and my range…. and your reasoning behind your decisions.

 

Poker Stars $5.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t125/t250 Blinds + t25 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG+2): BB = 185.4, t46348
Spenceboy (MP1): BB = 7.9, t1975
PEDVA (MP2): BB = 1.5, t375
Marsellk (CO): BB = 18.3, t4566
teebuoy (BTN): BB = 54.6, t13653
wannab333 (SB): BB = 164.0, t40998
Next2MeSucks (BB): BB = 202.3, t50575
croboy23 (UTG): BB = 22.2, t5561
Deadka13 (UTG+1): BB = 20.5, t5118

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is UTG+2 with XX
2 folds, Hero raises to t550, 4 folds, wannab333 raises to t1511, 1 fold, Hero calls t961

Flop: (t3497) J of hearts 2 of clubs J of clubs (2 players)
wannab333 bets t1511, Hero raises to t3022, wannab333 calls t1511

Turn: (t9541) 7 of diamonds (2 players)
wannab333 checks, Hero bets t3000, wannab333 calls t3000

River: (t15541) 3 of spades (2 players)
wannab333 checks, Hero bets t9750, wannab333 calls t9750

NBG
Melbourne, Aus
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December 14, 2012 - 1:22 am
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Excuse me if what i'm saying seems obvious or anything, I'm a new poster, so tell my if im way off or something. 

Well given villian is check calling the turn and river, it just seems like he is trying to pot control with QQ-AA, with both of you having huge stacks. 

 

I'd range you on the same I guess, but would possibly include 99,10, and medium strength jacks, also AK, AQs+ and thought your 3 barrell might get a fold. 

jjpregler
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December 14, 2012 - 8:46 am
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His preflop action is strongly ragned towards JJ+ and AK (some more aggressive may have something more in the range of 99+) He may have a few random semi-bluffs/bluffs in his preflop range.  It depends on his philosophy whether his bluff range is hands like A5s, J8s, or completely trash like 72.  

 

Postflop, it seems likely that he could have all of those pairs 99+ in his range, JJ however, being reduced due to the board.  That's not really a board that scares any of those pairs.  I can see AcKc making it to the river and maybe with some reads on you hero calls.  Or if one of his trash bluff hands may have hit a lucky two pair.  72 32.  (73 unlikely).  Finally, one of his bluff hands that flopped a FD with a 7 in it, like maybe T7s.  

gigantorrr
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December 16, 2012 - 7:13 pm
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he hass QQ-AA and so do you

cousteer
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January 4, 2013 - 6:36 pm
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Nope, I had KTs, he snapped KQo….. I was astounded when he called and picked off my bluff! What made it an obvious call? Was my play transparent or did simply run into a flukey call?

Turbulence
Falkirk, Scotland
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January 4, 2013 - 7:55 pm
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having raised the flop (nice raise BTW often the click up is associated with sets or draws), your turn bet is a little on the small side, I know on some levels this is suposed to look super strong, but this deep it looks a little weak, like a FD taking a stab / building pot if hits rvr. That said, your rvr bet looks like value and am v surprised you got looked up by KQ. Your only real air hand should be Ahigh missed FDs, which is actually beating him. I recon you take it down on the turn with a bet around the 5k mark because the implied threat of the size of the rvr bet.

aka Prophead340 aka Prophead2000 aka Turbulence_1

PocketFives Profile: .....urbulence/

duggs
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January 4, 2013 - 7:58 pm
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preflop your range is like J10o+ 22-JJ 78s+ A10o A2s+

his 3betting range will be like JJ+ AJs+ AQo+ and some random Axs KQs 22-55 and maybe some random shit.

on the flop he bets his full range

on the flop we minraise nothing for value to that sizing apart from maybe JJ/22 (we still can have flush draws and like 77-1010 here but should really be betting bigger). his call could be pretty wide so Acx and all of his value range still calls, so JJ+ AJ+AQ+ all call flop since our range is air weighted so no need to 3bet.

 

on the turn his c/c range probably drops some of his Acx hands and only contains Axcc AJ JJ+ AQ and any random Jx he 3bet (he could turn up with like J10 J9s JQo etc and just flopped gin. betting that card doesnt narrow your range at all, except that 77 is now nutted, but even with the percieved range of JJ/22/77 88/99/1010 Axcc Axc and other random backdoor draws we turned into a bluff he is still crushing us range v range. 

 

on the river 1010-88 all check back, so we only really have Axcc, other air, JJ/22/77 (but even then you would expect JJ/22 to bet bigger on all streets and 77 to bet bigger on turn and river). tbh even hands like AKcc and AQcc in our hand probably check back river, and some of our Ax and air gives up.

 

so he calls river with QQ+ AK KJ/QJ/J10 (gin 3bet hands for this flop) (without flush draws or Ac is actually better for him) and might click back to induce with AJ,JJ.

 

edit: just saw the results above, i think you both played the hand a bit silly, he literally loses to a ton of your bluffs like when you have A2cc or whatever but you are bluffing into a range we cant beat or make fold, also i think his river call is only marginally ok if he expects you to check back all Ax on river in which case its a correct call.

thedonator716
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January 4, 2013 - 8:13 pm
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Even good players can get stubborn sometimes. Not sure how bad your stats really are but maybe he dicided you were FOS and was going to prove it smile.  “having raised the flop (nice raise BTW often the click up is associated with sets or draws)” This may also be what made him want to stay with you. If he put you on a FD here then well…..I really don't know lol. The way you played it looks a lot like a FD until the river bet. Strange hand for sure.

bennymacca
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January 5, 2013 - 6:09 am
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i think your turn sizing here is a dead givaway you are just clicking buttons and dont have a really strong hand. as does your flop min raise tbh. 

 

this like works if you raise the flop 2.5x and then bet 45% pot on turn imo. or just flatting flop and then betting turn/riv

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