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Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy What to do Pre-Flop Late?

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What to do Pre-Flop Late?

lespaulgman

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November 22, 2010 - 5:51 pm

Okay so below is the hand posted from my bust out of the Sniper 5k last night on AP. I posted the entire hand, more for its humor value at what I got crushed by, but there is a serious question in here. I have been thinking about the Pre-Flop action extensively and I want to get some opinions on the situation. So I have been dealt a premium at a point in the tournament where there are 11 players left. I have a really good stack and chip position (4/11 at the time) and had decided that I really wasn't looking to get involved without something very strong…along comes the dilemma. I get dealt KK UTG at a 5 handed table. At this point I believe that I have essentially 2 options (there are three, but I will let you know why i discount the third in a sec).

Option #1: I can open shove my 29bb stack and hope to get someone to call me thinking I am on a steal and attempting to intimidate the table with my stack. I think this is going to only get me the blinds and antes virtually every time at this stage and I think I want more action for my stack so I will be in a dominating (much improved) chip stack for the FT. This seems too strong to garner any action to me so I pass on it.

Option #2: I can min-raise attempting to get one of the smaller stacks to tool out and attempt to re-steal on what looks like a lame attempt at a steal on my part. This would allow me to reshove and get in against what I would expect to be some sort of Ax type hands worst case and a smaller PP best case). I think with the level and the absolute amount of the raise (not relative size in bb's) is intimidating to most micro players, and this looks like a standard stab at the pot so I think this is my best chance at bribing someone into attempting a re-steal. I decide this is probably my best line and hold this as the way I want to go.

Option #3 (the one i immediately discount): I could make a more standard raise 2.5x or so. But I don't think this is a viable option as I believe it makes my play look very transparent, or so I believe.

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Okay, so for the actual hand I went with Option #2, as I believed that this was my best option to get one of the smaller stacks to tool out, my problem with this however is I am now giving the BB 4.25:1 odds to call with whatever junk he has to take a shot (which I got nailed by). The problem I have here is, are one of the other options a better alternative to this situation (or is this just a case of bad luck, good game, move on). Thanks for the thoughts folks. Can't wait to read them.

————————————————————————————-

Stage #448749615 Tourney ID 5853721 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 4,000 – 2010-11-22 00:42:31 (ET)

Table: 48 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer

Seat 3 – LESPAULGMAN (117,837 in chips)

Seat 5 – ZNOSE (132,713 in chips)

Seat 6 – AUNTBUFF5 (78,646 in chips)

Seat 7 – BENGALS9285 (149,407 in chips)

Seat 9 – AERO_DUNK (85,380 in chips)

LESPAULGMAN – Ante 400

ZNOSE – Ante 400

AUNTBUFF5 – Ante 400

BENGALS9285 – Ante 400

AERO_DUNK – Ante 400

No small blind is posted due to player leave

AERO_DUNK – Posts big blind 4,000

*** POCKET CARDS ***

Dealt to LESPAULGMAN [Kd Kc]

LESPAULGMAN – Raises 8,000 to 8,000

ZNOSE – Folds

AUNTBUFF5 – Folds

BENGALS9285 – Calls 8,000

AERO_DUNK – Folds

*** FLOP *** [Jc 4s 9h]

LESPAULGMAN – Bets 12,000

BENGALS9285 – Calls 12,000

*** TURN *** [Jc 4s 9h] [7c]

LESPAULGMAN – Bets 24,000

BENGALS9285 – Calls 24,000

*** RIVER *** [Jc 4s 9h 7c] [2h]

LESPAULGMAN – All-In 73,437

BENGALS9285 – Calls 73,437

*** SHOW DOWN ***

LESPAULGMAN – Shows [Kd Kc] (One pair, kings)

BENGALS9285 – Shows [10d 8d] (Straight, seven to jack)

BENGALS9285 Collects 240,874 from main pot

BENGALS9285 Collects Bounty Prize of $2

*** SUMMARY ***

Total Pot(240,874)

Board [Jc 4s 9h 7c 2h]

Seat 3: LESPAULGMAN HI:lost with One pair, kings [Kd Kc – P:Kd,P:Kc,B:Jc,B:9h,B:7c]

Seat 5: ZNOSE Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Seat 6: AUNTBUFF5 Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Seat 7: BENGALS9285 (dealer) won Total (240,874) HI:(240,874) with Straight, seven to jack [10d 8d – B:Jc,P:10d,B:9h,P:8d,B:7c] BOUNTY awarded: ($2)

Seat 9: AERO_DUNK (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Stage #448749615 Tourney ID 5853721 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 4,000 – 2010-11-22 00:42:31 (ET)Table: 48 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealerSeat 3 – LESPAULGMAN (117,837 in chips)Seat 5 – ZNOSE (132,713 in chips)Seat 6 – AUNTBUFF5 (78,646 in chips)Seat 7 – BENGALS9285 (149,407 in chips)Seat 9 – AERO_DUNK (85,380 in chips)LESPAULGMAN – Ante 400ZNOSE – Ante 400AUNTBUFF5 – Ante 400BENGALS9285 – Ante 400AERO_DUNK – Ante 400No small blind is posted due to player leave AERO_DUNK – Posts big blind 4,000*** POCKET CARDS ***Dealt to LESPAULGMAN [Kd Kc] LESPAULGMAN – Raises 8,000 to 8,000ZNOSE – FoldsAUNTBUFF5 – FoldsBENGALS9285 – Calls 8,000AERO_DUNK – Folds*** FLOP *** [Jc 4s 9h]LESPAULGMAN – Bets 12,000BENGALS9285 – Calls 12,000*** TURN *** [Jc 4s 9h] [7c]LESPAULGMAN – Bets 24,000BENGALS9285 – Calls 24,000*** RIVER *** [Jc 4s 9h 7c] [2h]LESPAULGMAN – All-In 73,437BENGALS9285 – Calls 73,437*** SHOW DOWN ***LESPAULGMAN – Shows [Kd Kc] (One pair, kings) BENGALS9285 – Shows [10d 8d] (Straight, seven to jack) BENGALS9285 Collects 240,874 from main potBENGALS9285 Collects Bounty Prize of $2 *** SUMMARY ***Total Pot(240,874)Board [Jc 4s 9h 7c 2h]Seat 3: LESPAULGMAN HI:lost with One pair, kings [Kd Kc – P:Kd,P:Kc,B:Jc,B:9h,B:7c] Seat 5: ZNOSE Folded on the POCKET CARDSSeat 6: AUNTBUFF5 Folded on the POCKET CARDSSeat 7: BENGALS9285 (dealer) won Total (240,874) HI:(240,874) with Straight, seven to jack [10d 8d – B:Jc,P:10d,B:9h,P:8d,B:7c] BOUNTY awarded: ($2) Seat 9: AERO_DUNK (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS

ttwist

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November 22, 2010 - 6:13 pm

yah his call was bad pre but i would of played it exactly the same if i was villain and was in there spot on the flop and he hits miracle not much you can do. cooler

FkCoolers

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November 23, 2010 - 12:16 pm

Couple things:

1. Has the table been actively 3 betting? Or has it been mostly flatting raises?

2. The smallest stack at the table is 20 bb's which means you should size your opens bigger on average. If you guys were all playing shallow you'd want to minraise but when you have some 30+ bb stacks at the table you should be doing more like a 2.2 to 2.4x open to try and set up a lower SPR.

If the table has been actively 3 betting you can make a case for min-raising. If the table has been mostly flatting then the argument just gets stronger for sizing your opens bigger to punish them for being stations.

lespaulgman

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November 23, 2010 - 12:20 pm

the table had been playing extremely tight and if i remember correctly i was pretty much the three bettor. the more i keep thinking about it the more i come to the same conclusion, my pre flop min raise was bad.

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