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March 29, 2013
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As the title suggests , what % of your stack are you willing to flip with ?
IMO i willing to flip with around a 3rd of my stack or just under. I think this is pretty standard, just wondered your thoughts guys?
Just recently I had 22 UTG i look at table stacks the BB had only 6k , i thought ok if i open I am willing to call the Bb jam for only 18% of my stack and ill ofc fold to any other action from other positions , i think that play was fine , thoughts ?
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December 6, 2012
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You’re leaving out some important details here. How large were the blinds? What kind of overlay are you getting on the flip?
Also in this case you aren’t definitely flipping. There is some chance the BB will fold, and also some chance that someone else at the table will get involved. So there’s a lot more to consider here than just whether you want to “flip” with the BB for a certain % of your stack.
March 29, 2013
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i forgot to say the blinds were 350/700 , so the BB had just under 10 bbs and i had 30k. with pockets 2s.
I still had a stack to open / fold to any action before the BB. and i know if he decides to jam its probably any broadways and ace rags.
I kinda worded this wrong but i am just curious to know your thoughts and in general about calling off short stack jams for a certain % of your stack size , knowing that your fliping. generally when the blinds are big
say the blinds are 300/600 +
and you had 30k or any med or big stack and you was facing a pre flop flip would you always take the flip if it was for a certain % of your stack ie 20% or less or whatever?
December 30, 2015
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As presented I’m not sure I’ve ever considered what % of my stack is being placed at risk by the effective stack size as a decision factor. How would this affect expected value? The considerations mentioned by Faucault are more what I’m paying attention to.
…facing a pre flop flip would you always take the flip if it was for a certain % of your stack ie 20% or less or whatever?
This time we are talking about a call decision. I am more concerned by what ranges I think the villains are shoving (which must include position and size (as tell/information, not a % of my stack) at the very least), and how much is in the pot, to get a sense of my equity versus what I need to invest. There are situations where I’ll fold AJs and others where I’ll call off with A7o.
November 18, 2014
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I think this question may come more on situations with short stacked players rather than a generic question.
I often open with the intention of calling only some of the players. I may open A5o to steal from the CO but still be willing to call a 6BB push from the SB cause he may be doing it wide, I have good odds and if I lose I still have 30BB left, while I may fold to a 9BB push if I do have 21BB.
Probably talking about % of the stack is not the best way to describe it here but I think % of your stack when you are in the 20-30BB range. If that is NOT the question I’m never flipping (when I know it’s going to be a flip at best) for anything over 10-15BB disregarding of percentage (assuming there’re no bounties involved) and that’s because the phrase “when you know you’re flipping” never happens. What happens is that you either “think you’re flipping in the best case scenario” or “think your are flipping in the worst case scenario” and those two change a LOT the optimal strategy so, for any substantial shove I would choose based on which of those two is more likely, not based on %.
March 29, 2013
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Aye i think i have worded this tread incorrect.
The reason I made this thread was because I was recently arguing like fuck for hours with a MTT reg friend of mine who is a very good player as am I but we have completely different styles and we dont agree on anything.
The other day I was playing a Bounty Builder game on stars the blinds were 350/700 and the bubble had burst I had 30k UTG rest of the table had stack between 20-40 bbs and the BB was the small stack with onlyt 6k and only a $5 on him.
Now of course 22 is obviously not a great hand to call an all in push with but if the BB did push with his 6k stack with any broadways or ace rags then I am taking a flip for only a small % out my 30k stack with my pockets 2s and getting his $5 bounty and if I got any action from other positions of course I would snap fold.
So i decided to open UTG to 1500 as the blinds were 350/700 and the BB jammed pre so ofc I called and I lost the flip he had a6os and hit the 6.
my whole point is I think that this play was fine my me as i only sacrificed a small % of my stack calling the short stack 3bet jam.
6K out my 30k stack left me 24k if i lost blinds 350/700 and i had my m8 fkn screaming about that for fkn hours saying that play was bad I shouldnt even of played the pockets 2s UTG. and i am saying i still had a good enough stack to open/fold to action from other positions and take on the BB .
December 30, 2015
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Consider this: 22 just has a larger chance to be dominated by a pair as well some some counterfeit possibilities. That is what makes it worse in a flip than say QQ vs AK. That said, your equity is still pretty close to 50% with 22 vs A6o. With the dead money in the pot you are already profitable, but you didn’t mention what his bounty was compared to the buy-in. If this is a $10 Prog KO tourney and V has 1 KO ($2.50 + $2.50) and the tourney has a starting stack of 5k chips than that bounty is worth something like 2500 chips, so it is more like V is shoving 8500 chips but you only have to call 6k and the other 2500 is just more dead money. That makes your play pretty good IMO.
All that said, I am still trying to understand if we should be including some sort of tourney-life-value. For example, if I’m getting 5:1 to call a flop with a flush draw than I should call, right? Still, I bust ~65% of the time….it feels like the equity should be adjusted since tourney life has value, even out of the money (time, overhead, etc.). I think this last point is what is at the root of this thread perhaps?
February 20, 2015
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In one of his books Harrington talks about calling any shove for less than 10% of his stack because of the value of removing someone from a tournament. But that was 10 years ago, and it was irrespective of the hand he actually had.
Knowing it’s a bounty is important information. Leaving that out from the original question kind of invalidates the subsequent responses.
I overvalue bounties so would probably call, but really this is just a math problem.
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