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v makes small bet otr, call or raise?
folding_aces_pre_yo
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March 17, 2016 - 12:52 pm
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#Game No : 772605843
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 772605843 *****
$100/$200 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #78288862 $4.50 + $0.50 – Table #30 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: corey092 ( $3,734 )
Seat 2: bashakira ( $8,770 )
Seat 3: bulgaru444 ( $2,245 )
Seat 4: Tosha.pro ( $3,889 )
Seat 5: borskii ( $4,481 )
Seat 6: london_ace ( $5,704 )
Seat 7: ElemenT238 ( $10 )
Seat 9: NotBad63 ( $7,545 )
Seat 10: AleksyK ( $4,405 )
AleksyK posts ante [$25]
corey092 posts ante [$25]
bashakira posts ante [$25]
bulgaru444 posts ante [$25]
Tosha.pro posts ante [$25]
borskii posts ante [$25]
london_ace posts ante [$25]
ElemenT238 posts ante [$10]
NotBad63 posts ante [$25]
bashakira posts small blind [$100]
bulgaru444 posts big blind [$200]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ Aclub, Kdiamond ]
Tosha.pro folds
borskii folds
london_ace raises [$400]
NotBad63 folds
AleksyK folds
corey092 folds
bashakira calls [$300]
bulgaru444 folds
** Dealing flop ** [ Aheart, 9heart, Qclub] side pot $90 , main pot $1,120
bashakira bets [$200]
london_ace raises [$750]
bashakira calls [$550]
** Dealing turn ** [ 8diamond] $2,620
bashakira checks
london_ace checks
** Dealing river ** [ 7diamond ] $2,620
bashakira bets [$200]
london_ace??

 

hey

 

no reads

 

otr when v bets out their range seems marginal , i doubt they’ll do this with a stong hand like JTs so we can discount monsters from their range here. 

 

thoughts please?

 

cheers.

Foucault

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March 17, 2016 - 12:59 pm
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You would bet if Villain checked to you, right? So why should a tiny bet change your plans?

Also raise bigger on flop and bet turn.

navinbits
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March 17, 2016 - 7:39 pm
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Andrew,

What does raising bigger OTF achieve here? Villain is already betting only 200 into 1120 which feels more weaker than stronger. By more, do you mean pot size? Or do you think overbetting might be +EV? I agree betting on the turn. I would also raise the river bet here. But if villain shoves over the top of my raise, am i supposed to fold since 1-pair might not always be good here? Is there any value hands the villain bets 200 into 2600, hoping for a raise from hero and then stack off with a reshove?

folding_aces_pre_yo
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March 18, 2016 - 12:48 pm
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@foucault, Indeed I would had bet if v checked otr. Are we discounting JTs as its likely v would shove this otf? reason why i called was because if we raise i was not sure which worse hands will call. I was also worried if v had monsters in their range i.e. JTs. Thats highly discounted though as they would at least bet bigger otr to get value from Ax or Qx

Foucault

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March 18, 2016 - 4:55 pm
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Raising the flop puts more money into the pot against a range you’re beating. Pretty self-explanatory IMO.

I would fold to a river 3-bet, as this is the bottom of my value raising range.

Of course V could have JT, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t raise. You still haven’t answered my question: if you would be willing to bet X when Villain checks, then why does his putting 200 into the pot suddenly make you unwilling to bet X? Do you recognize how beneficial it is for him to bet 200 instead of checking when he has AJ or whatever, if you are going to respond this way?

folding_aces_pre_yo
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March 18, 2016 - 10:45 pm
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because when v bet river i was worried that maybe he’s got me beat. what your saying is for v to bet 200 is the same thing as checking. I agree that their range is weak otr.

almofadinhas
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March 19, 2016 - 11:16 am
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Foucault said

I would fold to a river 3-bet, as this is the bottom of my value raising range.

Hello!

Doesn´t that line turns AK into a bluff? Or you are targetting weaker hands to call, and making stronger ones to 3bet all in?

joelshitshow
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March 20, 2016 - 1:35 pm
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V’s who routinely min-bet tend to be weak players. I treat these bets as checks unless I have no draws or showdown value.

(A side note that the hand history review flips the main and side pot. An easy mistake for a non-poker-playing coder to make :))

Foucault

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March 20, 2016 - 9:50 pm
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folding_aces_pre_yo said
because when v bet river i was worried that maybe he’s got me beat. what your saying is for v to bet 200 is the same thing as checking. I agree that their range is weak otr.

He might have you beat when he checks, too. You can’t just check every time you might be beat.

I have no idea what his bet of 200 means. I don’t know what a check means. You say you have no reads, so probably neither do you. Poker isn’t about figuring out exactly what your opponent has (though of course it’s nice when you can). You have to learn to find the best play when you don’t know what your opponent has or where you stand or what he will do next. This involves thinking about your opponent’s incentives and how you can minimize your losses (which is the same as maximizing your wins) against all of his possible strategies. What I want you to see here is that if you don’t raise AK here, you are getting outplayed by a Villain who is min-betting hands like AJ/AQ.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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March 24, 2016 - 11:42 am
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I totally understand now andrew. Thank you 🙂

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