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turn sizing vs fish?
folding_aces_pre_yo
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August 7, 2015 - 8:58 pm
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#Game No : 713050974
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 713050974 *****
$250/$500 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 
Tournament #71255185 $2.70 + $0.30 - Table #40 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: brumstar1987 ( $21,191 )
Seat 2: london_ace ( $28,387 )
Seat 3: nngrka ( $4,940 )
Seat 4: MangoNo.1 ( $53,295 )
Seat 5: A.V.C. ( $5,076 )
Seat 6: anpti94 ( $39,528 )
Seat 9: cardace345 ( $16,860 )
Seat 10: flaminheck ( $9,913 )
brumstar1987 posts ante [$60]
MangoNo.1 posts ante [$60]
A.V.C. posts ante [$60]
anpti94 posts ante [$60]
london_ace posts ante [$60]
flaminheck posts ante [$60]
cardace345 posts ante [$60]
nngrka posts ante [$60]
cardace345 posts small blind [$250]
flaminheck posts big blind [$500]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ Qspade, Kclub]
brumstar1987 folds
london_ace raises [$1,000]
nngrka folds
MangoNo.1 calls [$1,000]
A.V.C. folds
anpti94 folds
cardace345 folds
flaminheck calls [$500]
** Dealing flop ** [ Qclub, Kheart, 2diamond]  $3,730
london_ace bets [$1,865]
MangoNo.1 calls [$1,865]
flaminheck folds
** Dealing turn ** [ 7heart]  $7,460
london_ace bets [$3,730]
MangoNo.1 calls [$3,730]
** Dealing river ** [ 4spade]
london_ace bets [$21,732]  $14,920
MangoNo.1 folds
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
hey
 
hero's image sorta active.
 
 
reads – v is loose passive fish, has been calling hero's raise like nearly always , they'll limp a bunch too. They are 
pretty much on calling mode post and pre.
 
what's the top of v range here otr? if his range includes weak Kx  he's calling a shove otr for sure,  not to sure about my turn sizing, i reckon i should of probably bet bigger. however by betting half pot ott we can keep Qx in their range ,
 thoughts on this? only downfall is that JT would be getting good odds on the call ott so maybe sizing ott should really be bigger. I'm not sure if v will call a shove with Qx here, though since he's a fish it would not suprise me.
 
v may also be on a draw like JTs/AT/AJ maybe?, but i doubt they'll bet these otr when checked too , plus they'll probably check back
all their marginal hands like Qx and Kx so betting river is the way to go for sure.
 
 
thoughts please?
 
 
cheers
 
 
 
 
joelshitshow
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August 8, 2015 - 5:22 pm
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If you know V will call more than he should, what do you think about betting bigger on the call and turn? It gives him better odds to call on the river.

The top of villain's range? KJo based on how you describe his play. Axhh, and QJhh make sense, too.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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August 8, 2015 - 10:38 pm
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do you think he's calling a river shove with a hand like QJhh?

GunnJD
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August 9, 2015 - 3:42 am
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I think villain's range here is pretty capped. I could see a case for checking river and giving him an opportunity to bluff missed draws and marginal stuff. Overbet shoving is great when ranges are polorized. There are a couple decent missed draws here, and combos of QQ, KK in hero's range…so maybe that makes it ok.

 

Hero's range is going to be pretty strong here, but overshoving river may be too much imo. Very few combos of Kx or Qx in villain's range, and he probably isn't calling an overbet shove with the latter. 

 

That being said, it is a $3FO and we have top two. Maybe bettin for value is the way to go. I think bet/calling something like 5555 may be better, but after looking at it again the river shove really isn't that huge. 

joelshitshow
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August 9, 2015 - 4:34 pm
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I agree with Gunn. To answer your question, no, I don’t think he would call a shove if he has QJhh. I would bet small and hope for a crying call. 5555 is good.

I’d love to see a piece on the psychology of bet sizing online. 4999, 5000, and 5555 are essentially the same bet, but they all send different messages. I’d love to know more about this.

GunnJD
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August 10, 2015 - 3:27 am
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joelshitshow said:

I agree with Gunn. To answer your question, no, I don't think he would call a shove if he has QJhh. I would bet small and hope for a crying call. 5555 is good.

I'd love to see a piece on the psychology of bet sizing online. 4999, 5000, and 5555 are essentially the same bet, but they all send different messages. I'd love to know more about this.

Yeah the psychology of it would be interesting to learn more about. Retail stores use “.99” to make items seem cheaper. So perhaps that is a sizing we should use when we want calls ;).

folding_aces_pre_yo
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August 10, 2015 - 3:10 pm
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lol i use “99” when i don't and do want calls , i guess thats a good thing as i'm balancing my bet sizing range! If we were going to bet 99 with only our strong hands and 55 with our weak hands thats just exploitive bet sizng right there? unless you make it 99 with your weak hands too and 55 with your strong hands, so your pretty much mixing it up. Confusing i know haha.

 

I think what's important and what players tend not to realise is that our sizing really should reflect on what we think our opponents range is , if his range is weak bet small and if you think his range is strong bet big , with both your value/bluff range.Get that right then you don't really have to worry to much about the phychology of bet sizing , unless you wanna take it to another level of course.

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