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September 14, 2014
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#Game No : 822420395
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 822420395 *****
$200/$400 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #78339435 $10.90 + $1.10 – Table #7 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: 1981mariak ( $3,313 )
Seat 2: Graham8181 ( $13,083 )
Seat 3: rutramax ( $12,588 )
Seat 4: kosAA33 ( $8,516 )
Seat 5: learner2 ( $9,974 )
Seat 6: McLutchy ( $4,600 )
Seat 7: Specielman ( $39,875 )
Seat 9: Svetlograd ( $11,490 )
Seat 10: london_ace ( $17,943 )
learner2 posts ante [$50]
london_ace posts ante [$50]
Specielman posts ante [$50]
rutramax posts ante [$50]
1981mariak posts ante [$50]
kosAA33 posts ante [$50]
Svetlograd posts ante [$50]
Graham8181 posts ante [$50]
McLutchy posts ante [$50]
Svetlograd posts small blind [$200]
london_ace posts big blind [$400]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ A
, 9 ]
1981mariak folds
Graham8181 folds
rutramax folds
kosAA33 folds
learner2 folds
McLutchy folds
Specielman calls [$400]
Svetlograd calls [$200]
london_ace raises [$1,100]
Specielman calls [$1,100]
Svetlograd folds
** Dealing flop ** [ 8, 4
, 5 ] $3,850
london_ace bets [$1,450]
Specielman calls [$1,450]
** Dealing turn ** [ 6 ] $6,750
london_ace checks
Specielman bets [$3,375]
london_ace raises [$14,943]
Specielman calls [$11,568]
** Dealing river ** [ J ]
** Summary **
Specielman shows [ Kd, 8d ]
london_ace shows [ Ah, 9h ]
london_ace collected [ $36,636 ]
hey
no reads
which line do you take on turn?
cheers.
February 14, 2013
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I think this is the most awkward turn in the deck; I also think this favors the villians range by a huge margin, so I think we have to ck; I’m not sure he has enough pure diamond fd combos for us to ck/shove so I would just ck/c even though it feels awkward. Also I prob make it like 1600 pre.
September 14, 2014
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why does the turn favour V?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Not a fan of the flop bet.
June 2, 2013
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you check shove that turn with 7x too?
September 14, 2014
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@almo , I would do yeah or i’d just bet turn.
@foucault why’s that?
February 20, 2015
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On the flop, what worse hands call, besides diamonds, and you’re giving great odds to call. Also, lots of draws could raise you. I noticed it was a rare non-half-pot-bet for you. Is this because you only had ace-high, were trying to set up a check-shove with maximum fold equity on the turn, or trying something else?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Yes, fapy, instead of asking why I don’t like the flop bet, why don’t you tell me why you do like it. What does it accomplish?
November 18, 2014
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I’m with folding aces here. After a ROL a cbet will get rid of all their weak hands like KT, QJ, Q9 that he feel like limp calling but may put us on tricky decissions without position.
I don’t think we should forfeit initiative on that kind of flop as I think more times than not he would have missed. On the turn rather than check-raising I would have second barreled, we have two overs, the nut flush draw and a gutty so perfect spot to second barrel.
If he calls twice the river will depend a lot on the read we have on the guy, but I’d assume (if we don’t hit) we’re beat and check fold. I think the amount of folds we are going to get barreling twice in this situation will make it EV+ every time. If we are going to raise and then be flop dependant I would rather just check in stead of raising pre flop and then check-fold if we miss…
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Chaos,
If the best thing you can say about a bet is that it will cause hands you’re ahead of to fold, you should probably reconsider the bet. Also, you seem to be assuming that checking implies check-folding…
I’d encourage you to stop thinking in terms of “initiative”. It’s not a thing. It’s true that there is some advantage to being the player who is betting a polarized range rather than the one calling with a range of mostly bluff-catchers, but that’s not a reason to turn a bluff-catcher into a bluff.
November 18, 2014
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Focault. Ok, but what is the reasoning here for NOT c betting, specially after raising over limpers out of position pre?
Basically what is the line if you don’t Cbet? Check call? I just don’t see what value checking has in this spot. Are we inducing a bet? Are we trying yo get to showdown and keep the pot small? If we check and he bets (as he would have), are we floating one and reevaluating on turn?
I always play this kind of hands really agresive and I definitively always cbet after raising over limpers (some minor exceptions may apply but not to many). Just trying to understand the reasoning behind this as I’m definitively not doing that right now and I don’t understand the reasoning behind it so I’m assuming I’m playing those badly then.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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The reasoning is that you probably have the best hand, it’s a hand that will play reasonably well as a bluff-catcher, but you won’t be in good shape if your bet is called. Thus, you lose money when your bet is called, and you don’t gain that much when your opponent folds, because if he folds you had a good chance of winning anyway.
Think of it this way: will you have better equity against V’s range if you bet and he calls, or if you check, he bets, and you call?
April 30, 2015
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Andrew,
Agree about the bluff-catcher part of your reply. So, on this flop, what is a hand that you would actually lead on the flop with? Should we be betting with the weakest and the strongest part of our range? Weakest because we have fold equity if we bluff on the flop and V folds, and strongest range because if villain calls, we can try to extract more value in future streets?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Yeah, pretty much. Hands I’d bet on flop: TT, Qd Jd, maybe even Ac 9c, but I think the BDFD contributes to making your hand more appealing as a bluff-catcher. My most recent series is all about making better c-betting decisions, you should check it out.
June 11, 2012
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Foucault said
Not a fan of the flop bet.
i would call it terrible
bigger pre x/call flop and maybe x/r turn would be the way to go.
September 14, 2014
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Thanks for all your responses.
@foucault, It does not achieve anything by c-betting flop. I don’t get why you would bet Ac9c since that hand is likely to b ahead of v limp/calling range?
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