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Poker Stars $80.40+$1.60 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t60/t120 Blinds + t25 – 5 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
clerKKie (BTN): BB = 21.6, t2595
dockaman (SB): BB = 54.5, t6542
Nemoqwe88 (BB): BB = 33.6, t4030
Hero (UTG): BB = 23.8, t2855
RiverBoom (CO): BB = 25.0, t3000
Pre Flop: (t305) Hero is UTG with 6
6
Hero raises to t300, 2 folds, dockaman calls t240, 1 fold
Flop: (t845) 3
4
9 (2 players)
dockaman checks, Hero bets t410, dockaman calls t410
Turn: (t1665) 5 (2 players)
dockaman checks, Hero?
Turned a step 1 into a step 3 tonight while playing on the side of some MTT's and decided to take a shot at the 82hyper
Not much info apart from standard spot where villain 3bet shoved AQs into QQ and got there to double.
Should we jam this pre?
As played – what should we do on the turn? I have 2145 left i think….
Any other thoughts?
I like the way you played it. I wouldn't Jam 66 from UTG w 23 bbs.
if you put villains range to having: 2 overs, flush draws and 9s (he could also have A2, A3 A4). My preference is to take the low variance play and check behind. you have position so you can get value on the river if you hit your cards and get away from it if its a scary card such as an ace or heart. checking will also induce some bluffs on the river and if the river bricks I would call.
the only advantage of betting is to charge heart draws and overcards, which should be a small part of the total range, and I would puke if I bet and get 3bet. And you are favorite against both of these to win anyway.
June 11, 2010
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I have had a lot of struggles early in my poker playing with this type of situation. Biggest thing I learned (thx Wein) in this situation is to think about what your responses are based on different actions:
1. You bet the turn and he calls
2. You bet the turn and he re-raises/shoves
3. You check behind.
In the first instance you have basically committed yourself to the river and are in bad shape if the river blanks for you. You are going to at around 2k or so behind (<20bb) so that isn't where we want to be. Your fold equity at this level is going to be near zero so I don't particularly like that option. The second one is terrible for us and happens a lot, especially when villians see draws (more with flush draws as they are easier to see, but happens none the less with draws). They are going to put you to the test and hard, your hand isn't really in a position to withstand that kind of heat and you are stuck folding with <20bb, so crippled and pissed, an even worse state to be in. I have found that I really like checking behind on these turns as it gets me to the river where I have a few options to work with
1. I bink and can value bet
2. I miss the draw, he checks and I can value bet to look like a made hand
3. He bets hard into me and I missed my draw
4. He checks
The first is pretty easy, if we hit our hand we can attempt to value bet him here, if he sensed the draw (which is hard to tell with the check as I stated above with point #2) he is probably not going to pay you off, so we may have missed value in the global sense, but we can always try. The second one is interesting, if the draw blanks you have a showdown hand and you can still attempt to value bet if you think your good (getting called down by AK, AQ or something like that). If you get bet hard on the river and you have a mid pair, get out and fast. The last is an interesting option, if he checks to you on the river and you blanked (or hit) you can check behind for showdown and pick up a lot of information. I tend to forgo value betting at times in these situations if I am trying to decode what a player is doing and seeing his hand at showdown is crucial to completing that puzzle.
So my overall answer to how I play this type of situation (typically):
I check the turn to see the free card on the river, if I miss and he checks I check for showdown to learn as much as I can about him, if I miss and he bets hard or makes a clowny value bet I fold.
I would prefer to check behind on turn, the turn card doesn't really change the hand much and we are repping a pretty narrow range at this point. I check behind trying to get to showdown. Your stack makes it awkard betting the turn and getting raised, etc, or even called. Preserve chips, check behind and see if you get there. Best of luck at the tables.
thanks guys, i agree with you all
@les – big thanks for the thought process there – tbh it really made me think about the way i think when i'm playing chess!
i checked behind b/c i woulda just hated being check raised on the turn and having to fold
further to this hand;
when the river comes the board reads
3
4
9 5
3
(pot is 1665)
Villain makes a very funny looking bet of 345!
Getting almost 5:1 on a call here, knowing he sometimes bluffs (but little info on how often) as flush draws missed and we checked behind on the turn looking weak – is anyone calling here?
and lol what do ya'll make of the bet size? is he trying to look super strong like he's repping trips or a boat or what?
i also wouldnt shove 66 pre with over 20 bb here.
i think you played the hand fine, maybe i would have bet the flop a lil over half the pot.
checking behind at the turn is also fine. if i would have more info/stats on the guy and i'm sure his checks mean he is on a draw or just holds overs i wouldnt wanna give him a freecard so i would consider shoving the turn but without more info on that guy i would also just check behind.
you definetly have to call the 345 bet.
excellent analysis les – and for your reasonign really likecheck on turn, and valuetown if we hit river.
I had got in the mode of 2 barrelling in this situation, after seeing how often bigdog does it, and how often it works. But seems wrong with these stack sizes….
Calling the 345 too!
Im calling the 345. it looks like a small value bet but sometimes you see people do this to try to bluff cheaply. the 3 did not improve many hands he might have either exceptr A3 which is highly unlikely.
This may be a donkey way to play this, and I tend to have explosions at times, but I would probably have c-bet bigger, to like 600 on the flop, and made a pot sized all in bet on the turn. We're in trouble if he has a set or A2 (which may have raised on the flop), but it is tough for him to call with a hand as strong as A9. 7's or 8's prolly get folded. In his mind, we very well could have an over pair, and we've picked up nice equity with our open ender. At the same time, I don't put him on an over pair. I think he would've raised the flop with those. Also, we fold out flush draws, middle pairs like if he has A4, that could make 2 pair, and over card combos that could bink a pair on the river. A small chance, I know, but he might even fold something like 10's, that he just played weird. He also doesn't get a chance to bluff shove the river with his missed draws because of perceived turn weakness on our part. Again, maybe aggro maniac style, but if nothing else, I feel like this line does look pretty strong.
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