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November 8, 2010
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Found myself in a tricky spot in the WCOOP Challenge 01 (Big $109 SE). Playing well above my bankroll but wanted to take a shot at this as I'd been playing well and going deep in tournaments. I bubbled the 100FTP rebuy satty but won 6000FTPs which is worth around $90.
The villain had been tormenting me a bit, he liked to 3-bet my opens. We were around 100 players from the bubble and cashing was definitely a consideration for me, even though I know it shouldn't be. Looking back I think if I call the turn I have to call river but his line did look strong (or a complete bluff) .
Poker Stars $100+$9 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 – 9 players – View hand 2550880
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
bachiddd (CO): BB = 10.7, t12793
Hero (BTN): BB = 44.5, t53429
Jukka862 (SB): BB = 10.8, t12945
speedyhanh (BB): BB = 34.6, t41536
vlem99 (UTG): BB = 24.0, t28775
CALLToBeFree (UTG+1): BB = 49.4, t59264
solaris681 (UTG+2): BB = 44.3, t53209
TEENageTuRtL (MP1): BB = 27.9, t33516
PlayerPimp25 (MP2): BB = 17.6, t21153
Pre Flop: (t3150) Hero is BTN with J
K
6 folds, Hero raises to t2599, 1 fold, speedyhanh calls t1399
Flop: (t7148) 4
5 J (2 players)
speedyhanh checks, Hero bets t2716, speedyhanh raises to t6500, Hero calls t3784
Turn: (t20148) 8 (2 players)
speedyhanh bets t9500, Hero calls t9500
River: (t39148) 9 (2 players)
speedyhanh bets t22787 all in
July 6, 2014
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Did you have any reads on the villain? If high VPIP/Call steal I think 2pair (45s) is within his range, and therefore 67s also – both have you beat. Further options may be J9, J8?
I think a call on river is only beating a bluff as there's no worse value hand he should be playing like this.
Other than cbetting closer to half pot, I think I'd have played the hand exactly the same way (presuming you folded the river)
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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philomilo said:
I bubbled the 100FTP rebuy satty but won 6000FTPs which is worth around $90.
What's the relevance of this?
if I call the turn I have to call river
I haven't played on PokerStars since May, is this a new rule there?
Poker Stars $100+$9 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 – 9 players – View hand 2550880
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converterbachiddd (CO): BB = 10.7, t12793
Hero (BTN): BB = 44.5, t53429
Jukka862 (SB): BB = 10.8, t12945
speedyhanh (BB): BB = 34.6, t41536
vlem99 (UTG): BB = 24.0, t28775
CALLToBeFree (UTG+1): BB = 49.4, t59264
solaris681 (UTG+2): BB = 44.3, t53209
TEENageTuRtL (MP1): BB = 27.9, t33516
PlayerPimp25 (MP2): BB = 17.6, t21153Pre Flop: (t3150) Hero is BTN with J
6 folds, Hero raises to t2599, 1 fold, speedyhanh calls t1399Flop: (t7148) 4
speedyhanh checks, Hero bets t2716, speedyhanh raises to t6500, Hero calls t3784Turn: (t20148) 8
speedyhanh bets t9500, Hero calls t9500River: (t39148) 9
speedyhanh bets t22787 all in
Legit tough spot. I imagine it's slightly exploitable but I fold turn. His single most likely semi-bluff got there, and most gutshots that check-raised you just turned a pair and may not bet again. Hands like 56, 75, and possibly even 86 and 87 should be available to you as bluff-catchers. Even though they're weaker in absolute strength than KJ, the fact that they have draws to stronger hands (and arguably block more of his value range) is probably more important.
November 8, 2010
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philomilo said:
I bubbled the 100FTP rebuy satty but won 6000FTPs which is worth around $90.
What's the relevance of this?
I suppose I was trying to explain my state of mind. I was disappointed to have not won the seat outright and was therefore conscious about not bubbling again
November 8, 2010
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philomilo said:
if I call the turn I have to call river
I haven't played on PokerStars since May, is this a new rule there?
I love the Thinking Poker podcast Andrew and don't expect this kind of smug sarcastic comment from you. Or am I reading it wrong? I don't post much on TPE and am trying hard to work on my game and thought I would start by posting more hands on TPE. If I am going to be made to feel small by doing so by those who are obviously better at poker than me then maybe I won't do so in the future.
Very disappointed.
November 8, 2010
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ZakLawson said:
Did you have any reads on the villain? If high VPIP/Call steal I think 2pair (45s) is within his range, and therefore 67s also – both have you beat. Further options may be J9, J8?
I think a call on river is only beating a bluff as there's no worse value hand he should be playing like this.
Other than cbetting closer to half pot, I think I'd have played the hand exactly the same way (presuming you folded the river)
Thanks for your post. I don't use a HUD but he had definitely been looking to outplay me when he had position on me. However this line felt stronger than other plays he had made, if that makes sense.
And yes, I folded the river.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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philomilo said:
philomilo said:
if I call the turn I have to call river
I haven't played on PokerStars since May, is this a new rule there?
I love the Thinking Poker podcast Andrew and don't expect this kind of smug sarcastic comment from you. Or am I reading it wrong? I don't post much on TPE and am trying hard to work on my game and thought I would start by posting more hands on TPE. If I am going to be made to feel small by doing so by those who are obviously better at poker than me then maybe I won't do so in the future.
Very disappointed.
Sorry, I was being glib, but it wasn't meant to be mean-spirited. I did have a serious point: of course this is not a rule, and in fact you are SUPPOSED to have a range for calling turn and folding river. Whether this hand belongs in that range or not is the question, but if you always call turn after folding river, why would your opponent ever bluff the river?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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ZakLawson said:
Did you have any reads on the villain? If high VPIP/Call steal I think 2pair (45s) is within his range, and therefore 67s also – both have you beat. Further options may be J9, J8?
I think a call on river is only beating a bluff as there's no worse value hand he should be playing like this.
Other than cbetting closer to half pot, I think I'd have played the hand exactly the same way (presuming you folded the river)
All the hands you mention should certainly be in Villain's pre-flop calling range, and I agree that most (probably not J8/J9) would be played this way post-flop. I also agree that Hero can only beat a bluff. That's not enough to make this a fold, though. There are a lot of situations in poker where it's correct to call with hands that can only beat a bluff even when Villain could easily have you beat, and button vs bb on a very dry flop is certainly one of them. The question is whether this exact hand is one of the better “only-beat-a-bluff” hands in Hero's range. Better in this case isn't so much about absolute hand strength, as we're already talking about hands that only beat bluffs, as it is about whether they block hands in Villain's likely value and/or bluffing ranges.
Why do you think Hero should have used a larger c-bet size?
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