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(1 votes) 
October 21, 2013
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Hi guys !!
This is my first post here on the forum, sorry for not being able to use the proper converter, I tried but miserably failed ( i ll try harder next time).
Anyway, our villain is a micro/small MTTs reg (so consider him a pretty standard abc player), villain knows that hero is a tricky reg of higher stakes, that can make spewy moves.
What do you think about this line ?
Tp:
With 2over plus backdoor nfd i decided to c bet (i think check folding is fine too vs 2 p), when called i put my opponent on a few monsters (sets, 97) and a ton of draw (flush draws, gutshots etcetc) and a ton of marginals hand (J9, T9, 98, 78, 66 etcetc).
Turn is an intresting card, but what i found really intresting was his check behind, because at least in my opinion he can never have monsters !! (Ok maybe the only hand he can have that is a monster is KsQs cause i mean he is going to bet all sets, all 2p ( he now has a lot more of 2p combos) and even with small flushes i think he would bet to protect his hand).
So on the river since I know he knows that i can make moves i elected to overbet to let him herocall with all his marginal bluff catchers, (i know im targeting kinda of a narrow range)
What do you guys think ?
Thx
September 5, 2013
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fold pre, x/f flop or otherwise bigger. Don't really like the flop bet because flop hits villains range kinda hard. Turn std and bet/f or bet/shove river. Never overbetting because you turn your hand into a bluff; villain is never calling worse to this sizing. Think I'd bet something like 1800 to get some value from 9x hands and it's kinda nice to set up for 3b shove bluff
December 11, 2013
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OK so first of all I did see results and I'm going to try and not let that effect my analysis. Here goes:
Pre:
I'm fine with the open but open folding is also a fine option.
Flop:
CBet is fine here and I like the sizing, I would cbet here quite often since you have lots of turns worth barreling (any Spade,8,T, or A for a total of 17/47 cards, you can dbl barrel 36% of turns if these are the only cards you barrel)
Turn:
IMO a barrel here is far far better than checking it. I would bet/fold this turn maybe 100% of the time. You have TPTK with the NFD on a wetting board vs a wide range which includes a balance of better made hands, worse made hands, and draws. Betting turn also sets you up to make a larger value bet on the river when you do get a T, spade, or A (but we ought to be bet/folding in the case of an A and possibly even a T, although I'm going broke here when we river a T and have to bet/call some of the time).
River:
A bit hard for me to comment on river since I don't check turn, but as played I would suggest betting a smaller or more “standard” river bet. I think you are basically turning your hand into a bluff here and aren't ever getting called by worse. This is OK if that's your plan, but it isn't. The fact you're trying to get villain to call the overbet with marginal bluff catchers suggests that you may be getting a little too fancy and probably are giving villain to much credit to be able to hero call weak hands here.
October 21, 2013
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Thanks for commenting doug, so we are on the same line about pre-flop and flop play.
On the turn I agree with everything you say, the bet/fold line is the “standard line” imo and thinking more now about our villain is probably the best line, and it's also true that by checking the turn we cap our range (as you said I would prolly never check a flush here with these stacks, and villain kinda knows that) but what i dont agree with you on is on what to do if villain calls us on the turn, and i ll tell you why in a sec.
Let's recap what we should do (not considering this particular opponent):
-If we BET the turn and villain RAISES us we fold
– If we CHECK and villain BETS BIG we fold (we dont even know if an A or a T would give us the best hand, and if a spade comes on the river is not very likely that we ll get called)
-If we CHECK and villain BETS SMALL I think i ll call even if I shouldnt =P
-if we CHECK and villain CHECKS BEHIND, the more I look at this hand the more I like it, i probably missed the size i should have bet something less like 6.1K on the river but i really like over betting, so i say if he checks back WE OVERBET RIVER.
the last case is where i dont agree with you doug:
-If we BET and villain CALLS, having the As we SHOVE EVERY SINGLE RIVER that doesnt pair the board (as a bluff obv)
What do you think =) ?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I agree with others that preflop and flop are both close but fine, especially at a weak table.
I don't get why you're so eager to turn your hand into a bluff on the turn. This is a perfect checking candidate, as you say calling small bets and folding to a large ones. I'd much rather bet-fold TPTK without a spade.
River, frankly, is FPS. You're giving this guy too much credit for hand reading and hero calling, and also missing the fact that many of his “hero calls” will be with hands that beat you. You have to be pretty damn confident your opponent's range is capped at lower than yours before you make huge thin value bets like this, and that just isn't the situation here.
I like the gumption, though!
October 21, 2013
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Foucault said:
I agree with others that preflop and flop are both close but fine, especially at a weak table.
I don't get why you're so eager to turn your hand into a bluff on the turn. This is a perfect checking candidate, as you say calling small bets and folding to a large ones. I'd much rather bet-fold TPTK without a spade.
River, frankly, is FPS. You're giving this guy too much credit for hand reading and hero calling, and also missing the fact that many of his “hero calls” will be with hands that beat you. You have to be pretty damn confident your opponent's range is capped at lower than yours before you make huge thin value bets like this, and that just isn't the situation here.
I like the gumption, though!
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I know who it is!
I agree that his hand is marginal when he checks turn. The rub here is that you don't beat 100% of his marginal hand range, and of course the best ones are the ones most likely to call river, which is why you don't want to polarize your range that way a big bet will. A better player would be less likely to cap his range with the turn check, so no, I wouldn't overbet vs him either. I think there's much more of a case for overbetting a stronger non-nut hand like a low set or something.
If you're really concerned about capping your range by check-calling turn, then do it with some flushes. As Ks is not really a bad check-calling range. Also having the As in your hand helps a lot when you cap your range because it blocks a lot of what Villian's value range if he blasts away on later streets, plus if the river is a 4th spade he might expect you to barrel your good spades. Basically I don't think it's that much of a problem that checking caps your range.
If you want to bet-shove, do it when you have the As and no pair. There's no reason to turn a hand this strong into a bluff. I mean, you will the best hand a ton on the turn, so I don't think trying to fold him out should be your priority.
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