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June 2, 2013
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I decided to flat AA here, because the SB was very agressive, I assume he could try a move and shove some of his range, also another one could squeeze.
OTF guy donk overbet oop on this weird flop, and the raiser called, got me confused. What kind of ranges you guys seem possible here? I don´t see how one of them don´t have a set in this situation… with no reads, maybe two overpairs to the board? 6x 8x? I am not sure, thoughts?
IPoker, $4.55 Buy-in (400/800 blinds, 100 ante) No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
SB: 16,943 (21.2 bb)
BB: 35,986 (45 bb)
UTG+2: 30,706 (38.4 bb)
MP1: 8,675 (10.8 bb)
Hero (MP2): 62,401 (78 bb)
MP3: 31,988 (40 bb)
CO: 28,380 (35.5 bb)
BTN: 11,930 (14.9 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A
A
UTG+2 raises to 1,600, MP1 folds, Hero calls 1,600, 4 folds, BB calls 800
Flop: (6,000) 5
7
9 (3 players)
BB bets 7,200, UTG+2 calls 7,200, Hero folds
Turn: (20,400) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets 21,806 and is all-in, BB folds
Results: 20,400 pot
Final Board: 5 7 9 5
BB mucked and lost (-8,900 net)
UTG+2 mucked and won 20,400 (11,500 net)
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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The whole point of slowplaying is to conceal the strength of your hand and cause others to overvalue weaker holdings. So when people start acting strong later, you can’t be like “Oh crap what if I’m beat?!” because the whole point was to goad them into feeling strong with lesser holdings. Short answer to your question: why can’t BB have 98 or T8? And what would you expect UTG+2 to do with TT+ facing this bet?
October 12, 2015
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Hi almo,
Regarding the PF play, I think I would have 3-bet in order to get some value at this stage already, and play the pot heads-up if called by the initial raiser, or of course call any shove if it happens. I do not like to slowplay at this stage of the tournament where there are antes like that already. I think that if the argument of flatting is only to get the SB to jam, it is too much of a long shot.
OTF there is 20,400 in the pot, and we have got around 60,700. With 2 players still left in the hand, I would shove, hoping for either both of them to fold, or for one of them to call with a dominated hand. I put them on the following ranges (with the information we have OTF):
– BB: the play he does is, I think, typical of someone holding A9, or maybe TT, JJ(?) – basically he does not want to see a bad turn/river.
– UTG+2: of course he can have sets in his range, but I do not believe it is all of it. I can see him on a straight draw, A9, A7, 88, TT+ too.
Hence why I would decide to shove.
June 2, 2013
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looking at combo hand that this Vs may have this is a call, but at the time i thought that overbet OTF was soooo weird, this limits I play I rarely see that, except OTR…
On a heads up pot I assume OTF I should only call, but here with two oponents I should reraise for value and protection, right?
June 2, 2013
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Squallneo said
… I do not like to slowplay at this stage of the tournament where there are antes like that already…
What stage do you think is better to slowplay Aces?
Squallneo said
…
OTF there is 20,400 in the pot, and we have got around 60,700. With 2 players still left in the hand, I would shove, hoping for either both of them to fold, or for one of them to call with a dominated hand...
If this was heads up, just call or shove too?
October 12, 2015
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Yep I am in line with you on the heads-up play, I call.
For slowplaying Aces, I do that almost exclusively when we are deep. The reason is that I do not have any incentive to take the pot immediatly, so I might as well try to attract more people into the hand (either squeezers or callers), and decide on the flop what should I do. If it is quite wet, I have no issues folding my Aces as we are 100-150+ deep.
On the other hand when we are at the stage where people have 10-50BB, I like to frontload the value of my big hands by 3-betting, as the antes are pretty nice, and you can easily still have players calling you or shoving on you.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Squallneo said
Yep I am in line with you on the heads-up play, I call.For slowplaying Aces, I do that almost exclusively when we are deep. The reason is that I do not have any incentive to take the pot immediatly, so I might as well try to attract more people into the hand (either squeezers or callers), and decide on the flop what should I do. If it is quite wet, I have no issues folding my Aces as we are 100-150+ deep.
On the other hand when we are at the stage where people have 10-50BB, I like to frontload the value of my big hands by 3-betting, as the antes are pretty nice, and you can easily still have players calling you or shoving on you.
You’ve got that backwards Squall. With deeper stacks, you should generally fastplay in order to build a pot. You’re right that your hand doesn’t benefit from taking the pot immediately, but that isn’t what always happens when you 3-bet, and your hand does benefit, quite a bit, from getting called or 4-bet. When you’re very shallow and can confidently stack off on any flop anyway (well, should ;-)) then you don’t have such an interest in building the pot.
October 12, 2015
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Thanks for this insight Foucault, I was indeed over-weighting the “take the pot immediatly” argument, versus the necessity to build the pot or not – nice adjustment to make to my game. Let me also take this opportunity to thank you for your videos that are always such a great source of knowledge, and that are among my favorites (I have still got room to improve as you can see 🙂 ) !
So in summary, slowplaying was correct PF, and it was a jam OTF I think.
June 23, 2016
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Noobie here. Came to jot down some thoughts. May be incorrect so take the discussion with grain of salt please!
BB’s range is incredibly wide. When UTG +2 flats it rings some bells and makes it a little more interesting. Of course we need to take into consideration you look weaker than you are as previous posts mention.
Though if we were to construct the flatting range of UTG+2 what would it look like?
Im still learning this soo my ranges may be off but lets think it out anyways:
IF we assume the UTG +2 range is: TT-77,55,K9s,Q9s,J9s,T8s+,97s+,K9o
SO the equity vs UTG+2 is about 63%.
QUESTION:
Factoring in the BB into this makes it hard for me. Im not really sure what to do with that:
99,77,55,K9s,K7s,Q9s,Q7s,J9s,J7s,T7s+,96s+,86s+,75s,K9o,K7o,Q9o,Q7o,J9o,J7o,T7o+,96o+,86o+,75o
I dont want to hijack thread but i believe he may lead out with these combos. Against both ranges you are at 41% equity. But does that matter at all?? How does that work?
Anyways IMO BB has shit all and UTG+2 is where you attention should lie. But his range is wide as well. I think calling or shoving is the best play.
lol not sure that this helps at all. Selfishly this is also more for me than you haha. Hopefully someone can clean this up and sort it out to make a little more sense.
June 2, 2013
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W0RDS said
…
BB’s range is incredibly wide. When UTG +2 flats it rings some bells and makes it a little more interesting. Of course we need to take into consideration you look weaker than you are as previous posts mention.Though if we were to construct the flatting range of UTG+2 what would it look like?
Im still learning this soo my ranges may be off but lets think it out anyways:
IF we assume the UTG +2 range is: TT-77,55,K9s,Q9s,J9s,T8s+,97s+,K9o
SO the equity vs UTG+2 is about 63%.
QUESTION:
Factoring in the BB into this makes it hard for me. Im not really sure what to do with that:
99,77,55,K9s,K7s,Q9s,Q7s,J9s,J7s,T7s+,96s+,86s+,75s,K9o,K7o,Q9o,Q7o,J9o,J7o,T7o+,96o+,86o+,75o
…
I put some ranges here, not sure how accurate this is:
UTG2: Since he has 38bbs, opening 1st, I give him this range: 22+, A2s+, K9s+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, ATo+, KTo+, QJo;
OTF, because he is calling an overbet to the pot I give this range for UTG2: 55+, A9s, K9s, J9s, T9s, 98s, 87s, on this range hero have 70.19% equity if was heads up pot; And on this range I am not to confident V will have 9x, or 66, so taking that out, the range will be 77+,55,98s, and hero will have 68.05%, actually doesn´t change much… 🙂
Now BB: Pre flop, I agree with wide range of hands: 22+, A2s+, K3s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, 54s, 43s, A2o+, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, that is 45% of his hands, but to call pre flop, I don´t think BB will lead flop with all this hands, and when BB overbet pot I put him on: TT-77, 55, A9s, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A9o, T8o+, 98o. With the range from UTG2 and BB, hero have 43,74%, that is actually more than i thought at the time.
If I assume BB will overbet only strong hands, and check raise strong draws:
Lead overbet with TT-77,55,97s,86s, hero have 29.12%
Check raise: A9s, J9s, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, A9o, T8o+, 98o, hero have 50.3% against check raise range.
Because the overbet I am more inclined to think that they have sets, two pair and OESD most of the time, if was a normal bet I would reraise them both OTF probably.
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