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TPTK in pos - villain leads pot pot
hapetimes
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June 22, 2011 - 5:59 am
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Poker Stars $8.00+$0.80 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t20/t40 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Poked Faced (UTG+2): t3150 78.75 BBs
777ir666 (MP1): t7190 179.75 BBs
Hair n Poker (MP2): t2625 65.62 BBs
Siner21 (CO): t3500 87.50 BBs
Hero (BTN): t3255 81.38 BBs
mickslaven (SB): t6740 168.50 BBs
d00dster (BB): t3480 87 BBs
Tomaz21 (UTG): t2890 72.25 BBs
supguk (UTG+1): t2900 72.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN with K of spades A of diamonds
6 folds, Hero raises to t120, 1 fold, d00dster calls t80

Flop: (t260) 6 of hearts K of diamonds T of hearts (2 players)
d00dster bets t260, Hero calls t260

Turn: (t780) J of spades (2 players)
d00dster bets t780, Hero?

 

1st 20 hands or so in the tourney – villain has limped a couple times and folded post flop but not shown down anything as yet

 

I'm trying to keep control of the pot b/c a raise here is commiting 1/2 my stack and i didnt want to jam the flop, or should i? Its just a big donk lead like he has a big hand? so i flat the flop

 

The turn seems no different for me but he continues on his merry way.

 

Fold/call/shove?

lespaulgman
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June 22, 2011 - 3:09 pm
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I think you are way to deep to start getting out of line here with jamming. You are very early so you are still deep, jamming the flop would be way huge and too much variance. I think you can accomplish a lot with a raise on the flop given the texture. It is very unlikely that he called you with a monster, but since he is deep it is really hard to put the BB on a hand here. I don't like the FD/SD texture so I go for a raise, something like 700-750 here and put the decision on him. His lead more often than not is a weaker pair attempting to figure out where its at. If the texture was dry, I would advocate flatting him here, but given the number of cards that come off that either kill your hand or your action, I would just raise him here.

hapetimes
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June 22, 2011 - 10:15 pm
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yeah i tend to disbelieve most donk leads aswell

 

the only difference here is that it's pot, and raising him risks a lot of my chips in this intstance

 

i agree with you that the texture is wet and i should really find out where i am at now though

 

so the intention on the flop is to raise/fold to a reshove?

badabing78
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June 22, 2011 - 11:23 pm
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i definetly would have raised the flop ,

if he 4b jams the flop my action totally depends on my reads/stats i have on the guy. if he hasnt done anything crazy before i would consider a fold.

Hagbard Celine
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June 22, 2011 - 11:53 pm
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if you're going to raise/fold the flop then you're way better off just calling.

 

i think that considering his passive play to this point i would call the flop. the turn seems really close. the only hand he bets for value that we beat is KQ, and he may not be potting the turn with that.

lespaulgman
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June 23, 2011 - 2:42 am
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I would tend to disagree with Hagbard on this one. I don't think we are in a position to call the flop here as it puts us into too many situations on the turn where we are going to be put into a very difficult decision and we can make the error of folding the winning hand here against a well placed bet and a scare card. I think if you are planning on calling the flop and turn, put the turn chips to use now and put the villian to the test. The more passive you play these wet flops the more often I think you get jammed into situations where you fold the winning hand to often, which is a mistake. The pot bet I think is actually largely irrelevant as it is pretty easy for people to bet it without thinking so I don't pay much attention to it as significant.

 

hapetimes said:

yeah i tend to disbelieve most donk leads aswell

 

the only difference here is that it's pot, and raising him risks a lot of my chips in this intstance

 

i agree with you that the texture is wet and i should really find out where i am at now though

 

so the intention on the flop is to raise/fold to a reshove

 

To answer your question hapetimes, yes I would raise him right here and fold to his reshove.

adog26
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June 23, 2011 - 10:52 am
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Giving that you said the villian has limped and folded post flop a couple of times leads me to believe that he plays a more passive/ fit or fold style and won't be bombing the flop and turn with just a flush draw. With the lack of info on villian and position in the hand I call flop instead of raising. I would fold on the turn. If I had more info like he always called out of the bb or I had been very active in late postion then this could change my thinking.

hapetimes
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June 23, 2011 - 7:20 pm
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thanks guys

 

interesting there are 2 different trains of thought here

 

i actually thought to myeslf, he's assumedly passive, and to me it looks like he has some sort of made hand that he's trying to price a flush draw out of.

For this reason, and the fact that i didnt want to raise/fold the flop, and also to hope a possible scary turn card could slow him down (A,Q,heart) i elected to flat. Like i said above, im trying to control the pot as best i can, after all our hand that has a lot of showdown value.

 

when he snap pots the turn i just give him credit and type 'nh' then fold

 

he 'shows' K6o and types 'ty'

 

rolling my eyes thinking how much of an idiot he is i tell him i had AK

 

and like the 'pro' way he called OOP with K6 and the 'pro' way he played post flop – he tells me he knew i had AK…

 

must have been a 'pro' after all huhlaugh

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