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(2 votes) 
October 21, 2013
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October 9, 2014
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Think would keep the leading and cb this, maybe V would shove on the flop at least on turn, cause of the possible flush/straith draws, and you could get away from your hand + if I check I give (2) people a free turn card on this board.
To answer your question; No dont think this is a cooler, if people hit sets on the flop I dont call that coolers imo.
TPE Pro
August 3, 2011
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I don't understand not cbetting here. It's a wet board and you have top pair. Why give 2 people a chance to make the world with a free card on the turn. I would just cbet and call a raise/shove vs 20 bb stack if the other guy folds. There aren't many Kx combos that he flats preflop that have you beat. KQ,KJ and that's it usually and he might be shoving those preflop a lot of the time from his stack on the button there. It's unfortunate he trapped you and the board was perfect to stack you but I would definitely be cbetting here.
May 20, 2013
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Since working with Danny, I was about to post nearly exactly what he just said. It's not going broke here that was the issue, it was not c-betting here.
This is how I would normally think from that point forward: Assuming he flats the c-bet, you can check the turn for pot control. Following this line, he is more likely to put you on a Jack. Assuming he now puts you on a hand you might fold, he might slow down and then just maybe you arnt playing for stacks on the river.
The other option is to just barrel the turn and go broke if he has worse in his range.
September 14, 2014
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@riar , I've watched your series that you did with the chris moon and i've noticed you tend to check back flop often with TP , on certain flops espically corrindated flops which you're losing so much value from your hand.
I'd advise you to watch andrew's value betting series I think that would help you so much in your game play.
going back to OP , defintely betting flop and calling a shove.
dont get me wrong there will be times where checking back flop with TPMK is fine like if the board is really dry and you think you're only likely to get 1 or 2 streets from your opponent as maybe they are on a tighter side and they've got a tight pre flop calling range which dominates most of your value betting range but this aint one of those cases IMO.
October 21, 2013
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DannyN13 said:
I don't understand not cbetting here. It's a wet board and you have top pair. Why give 2 people a chance to make the world with a free card on the turn.
I really dont see how c betting here is a optimal play given people's range, people have changed their way to react to c bets so i do belive checking w KTo here is best, i dont see all the problems you guys see, even if ,worst case scenario, it checks truogh:
-BB range is outragiously wide and focusing too much on his fd is a mistake he can have almost anything so giving him a free card might even actually be good for us (gives somekind of backdraw to open up on the turn).
-If D on the other hand has a fd he is gonna bet it FOR SURE on the flop.
-By checking we give D a chance to bluff with a part of his range that would hav e otherwise simply folded vs our c bet
-PLUS by checking we get a lot more info about everybody's hand, because we dont only get a chance to see what D does on the flop but also what BB does in reaction to what D does (i hope this is clear) , WITHOUT spending a single penny.
-if it checks trough we now know that we have D beat and we only need to focus on BB who has a super wide range there.
DannyN13 said:
I would just cbet and call a raise/shove vs 20 bb stack if the other guy folds. There aren't many Kx combos that he flats preflop that have you beat other than KQ KJ which he might shove pre.
I dont want to sound rude/**** but I really dont like this: you say he is not gonna have MANY Kx that beat me, unfortunately he is NOT gonna have ANY Kx that I beat (giving villain K9s here is compeltely out of the question) so if we give him a range that looks like: AA (somethimes)KK(sometimes),ATs-A8s (im being VERY generous here) ,KJs+,QTs,T9s,KJo+ our KTo is a 38% winner here ( and i even gave him a larger range)…so imo to be happy to c bet call this, it's not an idillic scenario.
May 20, 2013
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but your just not deep enough to be “defending your stack” vs. “maximizing return value vs. ranges”. If you were 40+ BB, I get that thinking, but not at 20BB.
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December 6, 2012
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ltcolumbo said:
but your just not deep enough to be “defending your stack” vs. “maximizing return value vs. ranges”. If you were 40+ BB, I get that thinking, but not at 20BB.
It sounds like what you're saying is that Riar is pot committed given the SPR, but he posted an IMO generous stack-off range for Villain against which Hero does not have sufficient equity to stack off. Do you disagree with the range that Riar posted? I don't think that c-betting so that you can get away from your hand later is consistent with this line of reasoning either.
With the right read on Villain, I think check-folding the flop is actually viable. The fact that this is a Big Ante makes it a bit tougher, but still a reg flatting that stack ought to send up some alarms. As a theoretical matter, I think that checking your entire range may well be correct when you face a very strong pre-flop call like this. His range is definitely stronger than yours, which means that Hero shouldn't be able to auto-profit by c-betting.
October 21, 2013
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Foucault said:
I think check-folding the flop is actually viable. The fact that this is a Big Ante makes it a bit tougher, but still a reg flatting that stack ought to send up some alarms. As a theoretical matter, I think that checking your entire range may well be correct when you face a very strong pre-flop call like this. His range is definitely stronger than yours, which means that Hero shouldn't be able to auto-profit by c-betting.
What about about ck calling flop and check fold turn ?
CAn't he still have some middlish value ( AJ QJ JT) that he is gonna bet for protection/value otf and check it down ?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Yeah I think that's probably the best line, I was just trying to demonstrate with my flop comment how non-obvious it is that Hero is pot committed here.
October 21, 2013
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Foucault said:
Yeah I think that's probably the best line, I was just trying to demonstrate with my flop comment how non-obvious it is that Hero is pot committed here.
Got it…Thanks a lot for sharing your opinion about how to play this spot Andrew, it really helped !!
March 29, 2013
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JUST SICK cooler dude reg played well cc kk, you should have check jammed ttmp..
TPE Pro
August 3, 2011
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With no info whatsoever, a boom hand saying you had no idea leads me to give a “standard” opinion for this scenario. From given stacks on this particular board I stand by my word and think cbetting is best. Yes there are boards and stacks I completely agree with what you are saying but without much info it's hard to advise otherwise.
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