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TP mult way pot, bet for thin value otr?
folding_aces_pre_yo
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January 29, 2015 - 10:56 am
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#Game No : 665919148
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 665919148 *****
$10/$20 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 
Tournament #65819289 $3.60 + $0.40 - Table #3 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: london_ace ( $2,990 )
Seat 3: vananej ( $2,970 )
Seat 4: Dazamcfaza ( $4,065 )
Seat 5: LILbess86 ( $1,977 )
Seat 6: vootka ( $3,002 )
Seat 7: Zac.18.3.10 ( $3,000 )
Seat 9: sslabs11 ( $2,918 )
Seat 10: Tonzzata ( $3,208 )
Tonzzata posts small blind [$10]
london_ace posts big blind [$20]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ Tdiamond, Aspade ]
vananej folds
Dazamcfaza folds
LILbess86 folds
vootka raises [$60]
Zac.18.3.10 calls [$60]
sslabs11 folds
Tonzzata folds
london_ace calls [$40]
** Dealing flop ** [ 7club, 2club, Tspade]
london_ace checks
vootka bets [$101]
Zac.18.3.10 calls [$101]
london_ace calls [$101]
** Dealing turn ** [ Qdiamond]
london_ace checks
vootka checks
Zac.18.3.10 checks
** Dealing river ** [ 3diamond ]
london_ace checks
vootka checks
Zac.18.3.10 checks
** Summary **
london_ace shows [ Td, As ]
vootka mucks [ 8d, 8c ]
Zac.18.3.10 mucks [ 5s, 5d ]
london_ace collected [ $493 ]



hey hey!
 
no reads
 
 
I'm pretty sure we should be going for thin value on the river? once both opponents checked turn i discount Qx or stronger hands like sets.
 
I must say though my check on the river ain't good imo , if i'm going to check on the river my plans should probably be to c/f ,  most marginal hands would check back river. I just don't think there would be a high frequency of blufffs in there range because if v wanted to bluff they would have done on the turn.
Ingame though i probably would have c/c , which again i just think its a mistake.
Jimmy2tymz
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January 29, 2015 - 11:29 am
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Well seeing what they have makes it a yes! 🙂  But without results, I think I'm check/calling the river.

Foucault

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January 29, 2015 - 12:50 pm
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Ya pretty clear river bet, for the reasons you gave.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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January 29, 2015 - 1:45 pm
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@Plush 

 

why would you want to c/c?  

Jimmy2tymz
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January 29, 2015 - 3:14 pm
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I take it back… I value/bluff shove instead.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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January 29, 2015 - 6:11 pm
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haha okay 🙂

 

focault , let's say we get to the river with a hand like A2/44/55 , although these hands do have a fair bit of showndown value ,  would u consider turning these into a  bluff? we've pretty much capped their range, neither  don't have better then Tx,  bluff target would be to get anything lower then a Q to fold? 

Kalculater
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January 29, 2015 - 10:12 pm
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I dont think villain folds Tx on the river the way this hand has played out. I also dont think they will fold alot of medium PPs (which is why you are considering a thin value bet here) so it wouldnt make sense to turn our low PPs into a bluff. I'd take the showdown value.

Foucault

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January 31, 2015 - 10:30 pm
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I don't think I can say with confidence whether or not a random opponent will fold Tx to a river bet. That makes me want to bluff some but not too much. The hands I'd choose for bluffing would be those with minimal showdown value. Seems like you could have a lot of busted draws, and considering that you also don't have too wide of a value range (many of your best hands should bet turn), that's probably enough. If your opponent doesn't fold Tx, then bluffing will be significantly worse than checking when you have a hand with some SDV.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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February 1, 2015 - 4:41 am
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I guess a better candidate to bluff on the river would be a hand like Jclub 9club we don't have hardly any SDV we're going to only need to succeed 25% of the time for a small bet to be profitable. So if we were going to go for a small bet here it's pretty much going to be a modest bluff , the thing is though, with a modest bluff we are trying to get folds from very weak hands so does this make us wanna go for an ambitous bluff on the river instead , so pretty much bet big to try get folds from Tx and lower pp? i find it kinda lame though because if were going to go for ambitious bluff our line should be probably c/r flop bet turn bet river to get those folds , and i think a river card like a non club is good for this , espically if it was heads up , since its a multi way i'm not sure if c/r flop bet turn and river line is great anyhow , I must say though it doe seem like a pretty strong line here , as most players play more straight forward multi way , i guess it's probably just higher varience if we were going to take that line.

going back to what i was asking can we basically still make a modest bluff on the river even if we think their range consist of marginal hands like Tx and pp? 
I actually remember in your bluffing series (part 2) you showed that even if it’s considered a number 2 or 1 spot you still can still bet your air even if its unlikely your going to get a fold but there would be no sense in betting SDV if you think you wont get called by worse.

Foucault

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February 1, 2015 - 10:52 am
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If you're confident V will fold Tx, then you've got a very good bluffing spot (probably a 5) and should turn hands with significant showdown value into bluffs. It doesn't sound like you're confident about that, though. Just because you're sure V has a marginal hand doesnt' mean you should bombs away your full range. There's no law against picking off bluffs with marginal hands.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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February 1, 2015 - 11:51 am
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cheers 🙂

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