View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Tough spot with TPNK vs aggro tard $5 MTT
machine1984
Guppy
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
May 21, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
July 8, 2018 - 6:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (IPoker)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold’em – Thursday, July 05, 04:53:01 ET 2018
Table 1250 Gtd Rebuy 928964416 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ( 31293 ) 
Seat 2: Player2 ( 84952 ) 
Seat 3: Player3 ( 35664 ) 
Seat 4: Player4 ( 32366 ) 
Seat 5: Player5 ( 27226 ) 
Seat 6: Player6 ( 30078 ) 
Seat 8: Player8 ( 41758 )
Seat 9: Player9 ( 36076 ) 
Seat 10: Player10 ( 17709 ) 
Hero posts ante of [80].
Player2 posts ante of [80].
Player3 posts ante of [80].
Player4 posts ante of [80].
Player5 posts ante of [80].
Player6 posts ante of [80].
Player8 posts ante of [80].
Player9 posts ante of [80].
Player10 posts ante of [80].
Hero posts small blind [500].
Player2 posts big blind [1000].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ As 3s ]
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player8 folds
Player9 folds
Player10 folds
Hero calls [500]
Player2 raises [2000]
Hero calls [2000]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Ac, 9s ] t6,720
Hero checks
Player2 bets [4704]
Hero calls [4704]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ] t16128
Hero checks
Player2 bets [16128]
Hero?

Villain is 46/20 with a 3bet of 9.1 and a steal of 60% overall, he also 43% aggression postflop(so very aggro post)

As a side note here villain also calls shoves too wide which kinda takes away the limp/shove play( or at least i would assume?)

I limped in due to effective stack and player type. Folding preflop i felt was bad and so elected to call. No read on flop sizings so had to call.

So with all the information we have here, how do you guys play this turn?

*Apologies about the converter it wouldn’t work for me and i dont have one for here.
almofadinhas
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 586
Member Since:
June 2, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 8, 2018 - 10:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Would help if you give V ranges I think.

46/20 takes me as more passive than super aggro, but I don´t use HUD yet. Do you have enough hands on this V?

Play with this hand on a equity calculator, I think it is good, you can give V ranges for 3bet call, 3bet fold pre flop; can use the flop cards and check who has better equity in this sort of spots.

kondor
Lighting Money On Fire
Members
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
April 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 10, 2018 - 9:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I like playing heads up, my information here might be way off though.  But this is how I mentally work this situation and in blind vs blind the situations are similar.  This will let you know how I think, but it does not mean it is correct.  So read with caution.

We did not raise pre, and we called his raise after we limped.

This says that we have a hand that needs to see a flop to win.  Hands with an ace in them tend to raise here unless trapping, and when you just call his raise to your limp you are really under representing your hand.  To be honest I would have probably made a big raise pre with such a hand as this is going to stink if we hit an ace and the pot gets big.

When we check the flop he knows that we do not have an ace, so he bets.  Again I much prefer to lead out, I knew this was going to happen, why didn’t I raise pre? Now I am going to get in all sorts of problems.

When we call the flop he knows that we will do this with weak hands heads up, and so he fires again because if we have bottom pair we might decide to find the fold.  Damn it I should have raised pre, at least I hope I can play the river right if I call. This is how I play heads up, it is full of these situations.  I am constantly thinking what I am representing and does the other players actions fit to what I am representing.  I call here. This will represent middle pair a lot of the time.  

Now on to the river, which we needed to think about before we make that call on the turn.  If he fires again, at pot, I fold.  He is last to act, and that in itself gives him a lot of check behind for value on the river, and we could be slow playing something huge to his big bets.  If he bets very small, then I call. Everything between the two sizes of pot and very small just comes down to what do you think he has vs what do you think he thinks you have.  But in general, I lean a lot more towards folding the river. A lot more toward folding. Damn it, limp call check call check call check, I hate it, why oh why didn’t I raise pre and lead the flop?

Now in a sense this is bad, because calling a big turn bet is generally bad if you are not going to call the river.  But this is heads up effectively, and maybe he knows that and so he can make a big turn bet.  But do not really do this in any other situation, because it would be bad as people tend to bet the turn a bit tighter in normal play than in heads up and blind vs blind.  The reason for this is often no one has anything in heads up and so people bet the turn more, where as in normal play people tend to have something more often and so check the turn a bit more. 

Another line here is to call this turn and then make a really small bet on the river no matter what hits.  But I generally would save that for missed draws with 7 high or something like that, but here you have an ace, not only that it hit.  It is like a set. I am not folding the turn, and I hope he checks back the river or does a small bet I can justify calling, other than that well played him and move on to the next hand with a river fold.  Lesson learned an next time I raise my ace against him big and then act more aggressive on the flop.  Raise pre. Bigger the better.

And yes, you have to think about all of this stuff when you play heads up and there is a ton of room for error so there might well be some errors in what I wrote.  So, raise pre and everything gets easier…   Did I mention at all that you should raise pre?

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 10, 2018 - 9:38 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

Ugh, I’ve literally had nightmares about playing weak suited aces in the small blind, it can be quite tricky at this stack depth. Unlike my nightmare, villain probably won’t dissolve into a pile of poisonous snakes, but you will face a lot of tough decisions nonetheless.

As long as we’re never folding, I can get behind limp/calling or raising preflop. If I raise, I’m usually planning to shove vs a 3bet. We’re too deep for me to love the limp/3bet approach but it can’t be terrible. 

As played, I don’t think we are deep enough to call turn if we are ever folding rivers, this bet is more than half our stack. Two years ago I would have said you can never fold top pair given the action, but I don’t see crazy blind vs. blind play quite as often nowadays. With the weakest possible Ace after the turn, I assume we only beat bluffs. Is villain likely to be over-bluffing?

Villain has range advantage in position on a static flop, and may be cbetting near 100% of their range. The turn doesn’t bring many draws aside from diamonds and 3x/4x gutshots, so we probably need villain to have some zero equity bluffs. FWIW, I slightly prefer A3 over A6 – A8 as we block the nuts and don’t block any of the more likely gutshots. Our own gutshot is a nice bonus, but doesn’t add enough value to significantly change our decision.

I would encourage you not to classify villains as ‘tards’ or other terms that make it hard to take them seriously. Even the most recreational player will be approaching the game with some sort of strategy, and we’re more likely to figure out what that looks like if we assume they are not idiots (despite their lack of poker knowledge). That being said, if you think that villain is the type of player to frequently make pot sized bets with random hands because they think you can’t have an Ace, this is a slam dunk call.

Without a specific read, based on population tendencies at similar stakes on a different site, I think I’m folding but it’s close. Not easy to make top pair in a heads up pot.

rbbeagles13
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 52
Member Since:
May 1, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 25, 2018 - 3:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I have to dissent from the popular opinion here. Especially at this level, I feel that V is likely to be barreling, or even value-betting a worse hand. the 3 blocker is a little important, but we have to think if V raises 34s/o preflop. If he’s raising that, then he’s raising almost everything. I would lean towards no, so the blocker becomes less relevant. The important blocker is the A, though, because given his line, the most likely hand he’s repping is Ax, and you block that pretty hard.

It’s hard to make two pair, and to do so without an A requires 59, 29, or 25, all of which are very unlikely to raise preflop IMO. And the two pair combos with an ace are, again, blocked by you. Let’s get some ranges here. I’ve omitted hands I believe he is unlikely to have played this way.

Value ranges on turn:
Ax, 34, 55, 99, 22, 9x, (possibly) 5x

Bluffs:
A LOT. Vs like this I can see barreling without much of a second thought, even with very little equity. If he is as aggro as you say, I would imagine he’s barreling combos of face cards at least 50% of the time, and there should be a lot more than that. Kx, Qx, two diamonds that turned a FD, 4x with a gutshot now.

I feel like given his turn size, we can take monsters out of his range. That leaves Ax and weaker. The only hands you lose to are A4+, and again, you block that. Given the aggro lines I’ve seen many Vs take at this level, and the absolute strength of your hand, it’s a relatively simple ck-shove for me. Not a fist pump call, but you only started the hand with 30 bbs. BvB, you’re not getting a lot of better spots than when you have top pair and even turn a gutshot for when you’re behind. The gutshot does more to your equity than you think.

So I shove turn after he bets. And I’m happy about it.

The Riceman
London UK
Hitting The Circuit
Members
Forum Posts: 731
Member Since:
February 5, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
August 28, 2018 - 9:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

DDD said,

“As played, I don’t think we are deep enough to call turn if we are ever folding rivers, this bet is more than half our stack.”

This.

I like kondor’s post. I am raising this bvb almost every time. When I hit TP heads up this shallow, I am c-betting with an eye to getting it in on the turn. Ideally with TP I am looking for 2 streets of value here usually, but the stacks are just awkwardly shallow enough to prevent this as viable. Therefore I GII on the turn. In this way, I take and maintain the initiative in the hand. You’re bvb, you got an ace, why are you trying to get tricky? Unless ofc you open-limp most of your range bvb as a balanced strategy.

You identify your villain as “aggro post-flop”. 

rbbeagles13 said,

Vs like this I can see barreling without much of a second thought, even with very little equity.”.

This. Your hand is way under-rep’d. As played, I’m shoving turn over his bet. Certainly can’t fold the river if you call his turn bet…stacks preclude this, as far as I can tell.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
29 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

CSerpent

KJ

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12010

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1

Copyright © 2024 Online Gaming Edge, LLC.