Did I play this correctly?
Villian looks to be a TAG to me, PFR about 10% VPIP only 17
Full Tilt Poker $750,000 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t1000/t2000 Blinds + t250 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
verve44 (SB): BB = 25.1, t50181
3max (BB): BB = 32.3, t64539
Xvenger (UTG): BB = 64.0, t127993
bucket011 (UTG+1): BB = 40.8, t81509
sunilramaiah (UTG+2): BB = 30.2, t60469
loosefer88 (MP1): BB = 13.2, t26486
animal vlax (MP2): BB = 8.6, t17120
carlaomaringa (CO): BB = 5.6, t11155
KingDavid (BTN): BB = 24.2, t48350
Pre Flop: (t5250) Xvenger is UTG with A J
Xvenger raises to t4000, 1 fold, sunilramaiah calls t4000, 4 folds, verve44 calls t3000, 3max calls t2000
Flop: (t18250) 8 J 5 (4 players)
verve44 checks, 3max checks, Xvenger bets t10000, sunilramaiah folds, verve44 folds, 3max raises to t24000, Xvenger calls t14000
Turn: (t66250) 7 (2 players)
3max checks, Xvenger bets t66250, 3max calls t36289 all in
River: (t138828) K (2 players – 1 is all in)
I don't like the shove on the turn. A couple of draws got there (diamonds and 910). He showed a lot of strength on the flop. To me, the only hands he was semi-bluffing got there. The other hands he check raised with have you crushed (88, JJ, 55, QQ, KK, J8). I would check behind on the turn and fold to a decent sized river bet. If he checks the river, you could maybe stick in a value bet, but I would probably just check again. Save the 18bbs for another hand.
June 22, 2010
I like to open UTG at these levels 3x or greater. Your 2x bet gave everyone after you odds to call, which could be trouble in the long run. I would have bet more post flop. With your bet of 10,000 you gave him >2.8 to call, good price for a draw for some people. I don't like the shove on the turn, even though he checked it to you. I would have checked it back and see what move he made on the river. For some reason I am putting him on AJd or AKd, just a hunch.
"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."
Thinking about what hands he could have on that flop after he check raises you. He was getting close to 8/1 preflop on his call so he could justifiably be playing any 2 cards. As a side note since the checkraise is so small it looks to me like he’s wanting action and that his hand is strong already, maybe a draw would try and push you off the pot with a bigger raise. I don’t think he has a one pair hand here.
So for me the likely hands are J8,85,T9,76,97,88,55 and most Ax of diamonds. Having run the figures against that range your almost exactly 50% to win on the flop. Maybe we should take some percentage points off to accommodate the bet size indicating a made hand but your still not in seriously bad shape since he still has a lot of potential draws.
When you flat and the 7d hits on the turn you’ve gotta think that improved a lot of his draws which is therefore an awful card for you. Against the range we gave him on the flop your hand now has only 26% to win. You obviously can’t do calculations like this while playing but you should learn to think in these general terms and do this math afterwards, get a feel for how strong some hands are against certain ranges.
For me flatting or shoving the flop are both reasonable options since when you shove there’s still so many draws in his range that call you to get value from. If the board wasn’t so draw heavy, unsuited and unconnected, then shoving is out of the question since the only hands that call you are made hands since there are no draws in his range to get value from.
Once you flat and the 7d comes you have to reevaluate the relative strength of your hand. I think shoving here is spewy since a lot of his draws hit and you only get action from better hands. I like checking back the scary turn card for sure.
maybe the range we gave him should include more pair+flush draws (5x of diamonds) and naked flush draws and give or take a couple of other combos. The general thought process is the main part that will improve your postflop. Sorry for the long-winded post I hope it helps.
Thanks guys, what you are saying makes sense.
I think I got a bit scared and jumped the gun. My thinking was that I didn't want to give him a chance to put me in a tricky situation if another diamond came on the river and that with 60k in the pot and 30k in his stack, he was pretty much getting it in anyway, but I see that thinking was not very correct.
I was wondering about my raise from UTG, normally at this stage I am only min-raising, but UTG should I be betting bigger like that? It makes sense to me, but I didn't want to put so much in with AJ pre in such an early position.
He ended up having the Ad2d and won with a flush.
After knowing results I have to say I don't see anything wrong with the play or bet sizing up until the turn. The 2x pf and the ~1/2 pot cbet is what everyone preaches…it gives you the chance to get away from the hand without commiting those extra chips. I don't think that sizing necessarily works well at the small stakes I play but in this field it should be effective.
i'd probably b/f the flop against this type of player and certainly check back turn/fold river if i called the flop raise.
basically, at this depth he's ~never raising flop with the intention of folding, so either his range is wide enough to jam the flop or tight enough to fold. i think given the postions and villain's passive tendencies it's an easy b/f on the flop.
June 22, 2010
jsonmez said:
Thanks guys, what you are saying makes sense.
I think I got a bit scared and jumped the gun. My thinking was that I didn't want to give him a chance to put me in a tricky situation if another diamond came on the river and that with 60k in the pot and 30k in his stack, he was pretty much getting it in anyway, but I see that thinking was not very correct.
I was wondering about my raise from UTG, normally at this stage I am only min-raising, but UTG should I be betting bigger like that? It makes sense to me, but I didn't want to put so much in with AJ pre in such an early position.
He ended up having the Ad2d and won with a flush.
In early position if your playing a hand that you want, a good raise shows strength and keeps other yahoos out. Even though you want to build a pot, you want to be heads-up against someone. When your out of position you don't want to be the agressor post flop (turn/river) unless you have a solid read or a monster, you want to try and make it to showdown cheap. IMO I may be wrong on the last point and would be open to suggestions on my strategy. Basically, I like to be agressive in position but call out of position when I think I have the best hand, usually 1-3 nuts on turn/river.
"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."
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