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December 24, 2013
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Jacksonville 50k first flight.
12k effective at 100/200 level 3 10 handed.
Blinds went up as the hand was dealt and I thought it was still 50/100. I put in 225utg and it's ruled a call with AQs
utg+1 calls. utg+2 raises to 600. folds to me. I 3bet to 1500.
utg+1 folds, utg+2 calls. (utg+2 has about 25,000 after slowplaying AA pre, calling down on a JXXssQJ board, slowplaying AKpre and straight forward raising a turn bet when he had broadway; live read is he asked “how much is that” when it was very clearly a 1k and a 500 chip. He appeared like he wanted to fold or wasn't sure. These live reads are contradictory, one indicating strength and the other needing to be a reverse tell to be strong. I'm about halfway through Zachary Elwood's Verbal Poker tells and I'm trying to pay attention to these things.)
I gave villain a range of (88+, KQ, AT+AK on his iso)
flop (3500) Qh9s4s effective 10,500.
I check. He bets 2000. I call.
(I'm torn between check/calling and leading because my 3bet range because I don't want to be bluffed when I check AK and AJ here. I don't know if this is the right way to approach it.)
turn (7500) Qh9s4sJs effective 9500.
I check. He shoves all in.
We need 36% to be neutral ev, though I'm not sure what kind of +bb threshold I want to hit. If my math is correct, (4% edge on a 16500 chip pot is 3.3bb), then I don't know. Matt's article had me thinking more about the amount of profit vs risk we take throughout tournaments.
Initially, after talking to my backer, I had discounted KK+ because I thought he would just 4bet these because I had wanted to open action twice (once when I tried to open and again when I 3bet). Now I'm not as sure. He slowplayed it once, but it wasnt in a 3b pot. It was more someone opened and he called and they went like 5 ways to the flop.
He has 99, QQ, AsTs, KsQ, AsJ, AsT, AsKs, AsQ, AsK, JJ. I'm unable to calculate my equity and trust it after messing up syntax on propokertools, so I'm going to have to look this up later when I can use pokerstove or something like it. But against that range, I believe I'm getting the correct price. That said, this all relies on him betting AT when checked to on the flop, and being the type to semibluff a big pot on the turn. Does anyone else think this range is too optimistic?
July 6, 2014
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I'd be folding to the shove as this early on we dont want to be making marginal calls when if we fold we have almost 50bbs.
Just wondering, why didn't you cbet flop? If people pick up on that you aren't cbetting when you flop top pair top kicker, they are unlikely to believe you when you cbet as a bluff. However once you have checked and he bets 2000 I like a raise with the intention of getting it in on flop as it is such a draw heavy board?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I think your post-flop line is fine and I'd fold now. If anything Villain should be MORE inclined to flat KK+ in a 3bet pot that is already heads up than in a single-raised pot, so if you've already seen him do that I don't see a reason to exclude it from his range now. I'm assuming you'd have mentioned if you had the As, with it I'd call the shove obviously.
I'm not wild about the 3bet preflop though, I just don't see what it accomplishes. If you're going to do it at all, you should raise larger so that you are actually putting some pressure on the original raiser – I doubt he ever folds to your raise, so you are just setting up to play a bloated pot OOP with a range that is more defined than if you'd just called. A lot of this is based on the range you gave him, against which you aren't much of a favorite anyway. Originally it seemed tight to me but then I realized that he knew you wanted to raise UTG initially, which really should make him reluctant to reopen the betting even with some of the hands you mentioned.
December 24, 2013
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Andrew:[I thought this looked strange as I typed it up. I miswrote my hand. I have AxQs
I agree my 3bet bloats the pot. I believed his entire range would continue to my sizing, but would serve to isolate him. I didn’t want to go to the flop 3ways. When I call, utg+1 always calls as well. I realize now that it’s silly to be uncomfortable with this. Going to the flop headsup this way lowers spr tremendously.
You’re right about nut hands having reason to flat to 3bets, especially after seeing him flat a 2bet with AA. Putting those hands back into his range will certainly make it a fold on the turn to his shove, and I’m not even convinced this villain shoves the turn without a strong hand anymore. In game, the turn felt like it was going to be very marginal.]
Zak:
I didn’t see a ton of reason to cbet because of the range I assigned him preflop. I stand to have the best hand in a low spr situation most of the time and I believed we either get bluffs, he’ll bet his Qx, or we get a check back. It is true I would be cbet bluffing and am imbalanced by doing so, but in this ep vs ep spot, I believed it wouldn’t matter a ton. I still think that’s the case as most hands played aren’t going to be ep vs ep.
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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appears to me that his tendency to slow-play big hands (as demonstrated in other hands you listed), makes me far, far less happy about 3betting pre. the spot obviously gets convoluted by the fact that your attempted raise was ruled a call, but its clear to everyone you tried to raise, and STILL this guy iso's your ruled limp and one more over-limp. i think calling and seeing flop 3 ways > isoing and playing a (probably) strong range out of position in bloated pot.
this appears to be the 2nd or 3rd time where you flopped TPTK in a 3b pot and were in a very tough spot on the turn. although your reasoning is advanced and lead you toward checking the turn, the reality is that you're playing live tournaments against not-very-good players, and cbetting standard TPTK spots will probably make your life a lot, lot easier in these stages of the tournament. seems like this guy played pretty straightforward post, so cbet/folding flop, or playing more cautiously on scary turns such as this vs calls (assuming little or no floats), will make life a lot easier for you in my opinion.
December 24, 2013
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MovesLikeDarvin said:
appears to me that his tendency to slow-play big hands (as demonstrated in other hands you listed), makes me far, far less happy about 3betting pre. the spot obviously gets convoluted by the fact that your attempted raise was ruled a call, but its clear to everyone you tried to raise, and STILL this guy iso's your ruled limp and one more over-limp. i think calling and seeing flop 3 ways > isoing and playing a (probably) strong range out of position in bloated pot.
this appears to be the 2nd or 3rd time where you flopped TPTK in a 3b pot and were in a very tough spot on the turn. although your reasoning is advanced and lead you toward checking the turn, the reality is that you're playing live tournaments against not-very-good players, and cbetting standard TPTK spots will probably make your life a lot, lot easier in these stages of the tournament. seems like this guy played pretty straightforward post, so cbet/folding flop, or playing more cautiously on scary turns such as this vs calls (assuming little or no floats), will make life a lot easier for you in my opinion.
I didn't realize it right away, but I think all the live tournaments I played had situations, save for one I'm about to post, where I played very showdown heavy in low spr situations. I don't know why I did, but I see why cbetting is just so much easier. I think it gets convoluted by me choosing to 3bet when action comes back to me, where after I had raised and was called, I wasn't sure about the strength of his range. Simply calling (or opening the pot in the first place) eliminates this issue entirely! I'd have raised, cbet/f, cbet/f (dry turns) x/decide (wet turns).
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