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March 28, 2016
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$130 live event. 20 min levels. 10 handed.
Blinds 200-400 no ante
Stacks
Utg+2 hero 35k
Btn 6k
BB 35k
Reads
Btn is a poor, loose player who calls very wide pre, seems to not read hands and likes to bet when checked to no matter what, with or without equity. He will also float wide. I have zero respect for his bets.
BB is very laggy and loves to make huge donks and bets when checked to, 1 to 2x pot, with draws, pr plus draw, 2nd pr, weak top pair and air. I originally thought he was drunk but i never smelled alcohol. His actions contain value hands but his range distribution has too many weak hands and draws to be totally balanced. I have little respect for his bets, maybe slightly more for his post flop raises. He made comments about not wanting to be in pots with me because i seemed to play tightly.
Action
I raise ATcc to 1k, btn and bb call.
Flop T62sss
BB chk. My plan was to chk to induce btn to bet. I had no intention to fold to him. I chk. Btn bets 1k leaving 4k behind. BB surprised me by cr to 3.5k. I was not totally convinced since i showed weakness and i was not sure he had the same read on the btn that i did, but i was not sure and i was uncertain if the BB would leverage me out.
Now what?
Thoughts on flop play?
June 3, 2012
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Readless I like betting here, it’s hard to make a flush and we don’t want to give hands with a single spade a free shot. However given your read on the button that he’s going to bet a lot when you check, I think a check here is good, as we will get more information from the big blind.
Now that he has raised us, I feel pretty comfortable folding. Yes we occasionally fold the best hand, but hands like Tx with a spade have a good chunk of equity anyway, and if he has a flush or a set we are in a lot of trouble with a lot money left to play behind. I think his range will be more weighted towards value as well since BB is clearly willing to get it in against the button. Some of that value is worse than AT, but I don’t think it’s often enough to be worth continuing here.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Agree with Julius. Also want to give props to OP for doing such a good job gathering detailed reads and building a good plan around them.
March 28, 2016
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Thank you both for your responses. I was never worried about the btn honestly. However, despite my read on the bb being out of balance and out of line, i did feel that even if i were good now i would have to fold to further turn action and the bb was more than likely going to fire the turn since he will put many draws and pair plus draws in my range and he would want to get value from that range or move me off. I did end up folding, the btn jammed, the bb called. The btn showed AJdh. The bb showed T7 no spades. T7 held.
September 30, 2013
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I would actually consider a cold 4-bet in this spot. For one you think you are ahead of button so you will happily get it in against him.
BB sees you as tight meaning a cold 4bet will look very strong and it will be hard for him to put you on anything but spades or a set.
So if BB 5bets we are happily done with the hand but I don’t think he will 5bet anything except the same range we are perceived to 4bet ourselves. I also think he will fold out alot of hands that have good equity like KQo with one spade etc.
If BB calls we wont put another bet in unless the run out is a full house or quads for us. If he calls flop and turn is a blank he will check 100% of the time, we check behind. No matter the river unless he makes a nuts hand he will check again, I really doubt he will try to steal the pot away on the river. So this would also give us a free showdown if he had K10 with Ks and still he might just fold that on the flop knowing he likely will be faced with a big bet on the turn.
So with your reads on these two players and considering how deep you and BB are I actually think a cold 4-bet could be a nice line here.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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rabbhit said
I would actually consider a cold 4-bet in this spot. For one you think you are ahead of button so you will happily get it in against him.
BB sees you as tight meaning a cold 4bet will look very strong and it will be hard for him to put you on anything but spades or a set.So if BB 5bets we are happily done with the hand but I don’t think he will 5bet anything except the same range we are perceived to 4bet ourselves. I also think he will fold out alot of hands that have good equity like KQo with one spade etc.
If BB calls we wont put another bet in unless the run out is a full house or quads for us. If he calls flop and turn is a blank he will check 100% of the time, we check behind. No matter the river unless he makes a nuts hand he will check again, I really doubt he will try to steal the pot away on the river. So this would also give us a free showdown if he had K10 with Ks and still he might just fold that on the flop knowing he likely will be faced with a big bet on the turn.
So with your reads on these two players and considering how deep you and BB are I actually think a cold 4-bet could be a nice line here.
The main thing that concerns me about this argument is that it doesn’t take your cards into consideration at all. Does it matter at all that you have AT here, or are you thinking this is a good spot to 3-bet (yours would be the third bet) with any two cards?
March 28, 2016
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Foucault said
rabbhit said
I would actually consider a cold 4-bet in this spot. For one you think you are ahead of button so you will happily get it in against him.
BB sees you as tight meaning a cold 4bet will look very strong and it will be hard for him to put you on anything but spades or a set.So if BB 5bets we are happily done with the hand but I don’t think he will 5bet anything except the same range we are perceived to 4bet ourselves. I also think he will fold out alot of hands that have good equity like KQo with one spade etc.
If BB calls we wont put another bet in unless the run out is a full house or quads for us. If he calls flop and turn is a blank he will check 100% of the time, we check behind. No matter the river unless he makes a nuts hand he will check again, I really doubt he will try to steal the pot away on the river. So this would also give us a free showdown if he had K10 with Ks and still he might just fold that on the flop knowing he likely will be faced with a big bet on the turn.
So with your reads on these two players and considering how deep you and BB are I actually think a cold 4-bet could be a nice line here.
The main thing that concerns me about this argument is that it doesn’t take your cards into consideration at all. Does it matter at all that you have AT here, or are you thinking this is a good spot to 3-bet (yours would be the third bet) with any two cards?
This is an interesting idea as it comes across as a freezing raise. However it strikes me as essentially turning our hand into a bluff and seems as though it is more for info than anything else. If we were to do this, what hands would be best? Low flush draws and one or two overs, maybe air? But with what value hands would we balance this with? Cannot think of any besides lower flushes. It seems our range for the flop 3bet would be incredibly narrow.
September 30, 2013
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Foucault said
rabbhit said
I would actually consider a cold 4-bet in this spot. For one you think you are ahead of button so you will happily get it in against him.
BB sees you as tight meaning a cold 4bet will look very strong and it will be hard for him to put you on anything but spades or a set.So if BB 5bets we are happily done with the hand but I don’t think he will 5bet anything except the same range we are perceived to 4bet ourselves. I also think he will fold out alot of hands that have good equity like KQo with one spade etc.
If BB calls we wont put another bet in unless the run out is a full house or quads for us. If he calls flop and turn is a blank he will check 100% of the time, we check behind. No matter the river unless he makes a nuts hand he will check again, I really doubt he will try to steal the pot away on the river. So this would also give us a free showdown if he had K10 with Ks and still he might just fold that on the flop knowing he likely will be faced with a big bet on the turn.
So with your reads on these two players and considering how deep you and BB are I actually think a cold 4-bet could be a nice line here.
The main thing that concerns me about this argument is that it doesn’t take your cards into consideration at all. Does it matter at all that you have AT here, or are you thinking this is a good spot to 3-bet (yours would be the third bet) with any two cards?
I don’t think the spot is good to 3bet with any two cards since BTN has a small stack and most likely will get it in unless he bet very small with just air (unlikely) so we have to assume BTN is getting it in. So with A10 we think we are good vs BTN and BB has said himself that he doesn’t want to be involved in pots with us because we are too tight. Because of that BB pretty much need As, a made flush or set to continue and of those, the most likely is AsX and I don’t think he will make a move if turn blanks and it goes check/check and river blanks since one player is allin.
So we still need some type of hand to be able to win vs BTN but I think BB will fold most hands that isn’t the ones above, despite having great odds to peel one on the flop, unless he is terrible and then I wouldn’t recommend the play.
So vs BTN this is a value raise to get it in and vs BB this is a 3bet bluff, we wont put more chips in the pot unless the runout is a full house or quads for us or if BB bets an absurd low amount after two blanks, like 2k-4k on the river.
I just think it could be a better option then folding considering how SB perceive us.
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