View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Top Pair and Flush Draw on Turn Vs 3 Opponents - Merits of check-raising vs flatting
Hamishk
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
June 9, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
August 30, 2015 - 8:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

$330 live tournament with around 35 runners

From memory blind level was 150/300 with antes (?25 or 50)

Hero is UTG with KspadeQspade approx 22K (starting stacks 17K)

Open-raise to 600 (2X)

CO flats with approx 22K
Button flats with approx 18K
BB flats with approx 11K

Flop QclubTclub5spade

BB Checks
Hero continues for 1600 into roughly 2700

Everyone calls

Turn 6spade

BB checks
With Top Pair/ 2nd kicker and Flush Draw Hero checks, Cutoff checks and Button bets 2500 into 9100 leaving approx 13 to 14K behind

BB Calls, leaving about 5 to 6K behind

Image wise, the BB is a mainly cash game player who I haven't played against much. From discussion with others the impression I have gained is of someone who is fairly tight but not very creative

This is first time playiing against Cutoff and Button.

Read on Cutoff is that he is prepared to bluff from OOP if people show weakness. He double barelled from BB on turn and river after flop went check-check. Turned out to have Q high

Button seems to be fairly tight. And seems to be playing fit or fold. I would be surprised if he had nothing after calling flop bet and then continuing on turn after being checked to.

How often should I check-raise shove (roughly 19 to 20K behind) Versus flatting?

In the moment I was thinking of club flush draws, OESD and possible TP / Bluffs for Button. Considered sets to be unlikely on the flop as I would have expected anyone with a set to 3bet the flop as the flop is pretty draw heavy.

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
August 31, 2015 - 11:05 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Heads up vs button I can see a good case for just calling, especially if he’d bet somewhat larger. However, BB never has you beat and is almost certainly drawing (anyone with his stack will correctly stick the money in if he thinks he has the best hand, whether that’s QJ or 55, so his draw basically has to be a call). I’d shove. There’s a lot out there to protect, you block most of the hands you’re worried about, you’re drawing live even against sets, and it’s not impossible that you get called by hands you dominate because this is a line you could plausibly take with a bare draw.

Hamishk
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
June 9, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
August 31, 2015 - 9:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Andrew, thanks for the reply.

 

I found writing out the post had merit in making me think more deeply about the hand and I'd more or less came to the same conclusion re shoving.   Getting the additional information about the read on the BB on the turn is useful.  Hadn't really crystallized my view on him while reviewing the hand. 

florianm1
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 588
Member Since:
June 11, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
September 2, 2015 - 9:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

i would like to add to andrews post that i think most people live would play their strong hands faster on these kind of flops.  

therefor a shove will most likely have tons of FEQ

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
September 2, 2015 - 2:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

florianm1 said
i would like to add to andrews post that i think most people live would play their strong hands faster on these kind of flops.  

therefor a shove will most likely have tons of FEQ

If you mean you’ll get a lot of folds, that may be true. Fold EQUITY, however, is equity that you gain as a result of Villain folding. If he folds a hand that is drawing thin/dead, you don’t gain much from that. Unfortunately, I don’t see either player folding many hands that have a good chance of beating Hero on the river.

florianm1
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 588
Member Since:
June 11, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
September 3, 2015 - 5:05 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

jep that was what i meant. just used the wrong wording

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
94 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1