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Too much too shove???
III PRO III
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June 9, 2011 - 9:23 pm
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Too much too shove or just perfect 🙂

My friend says 28bb is a bit too much…

 

 

Poker Stars $5.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t200/t400 Blinds + t50 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

deepwoodsoff (BB): BB = 24.3, t9726
Lukie99 (UTG): BB = 23.0, t9206
tobi0411 (UTG+1): BB = 28.5, t11398
APD0290 (UTG+2): BB = 60.5, t24184
en220 (MP1): BB = 30.6, t12238
Hero (MP2): BB = 28.0, t11210
seehopper (CO): BB = 110.0, t44017
Bradortega (BTN): BB = 53.4, t21373
Gemstone Ltd (SB): BB = 30.7, t12269

Pre Flop: (t1050) Hero is MP2 with T of hearts T of diamonds
3 folds, en220 raises to t999, Hero raises to t11160 all in, 4 folds, en220 calls t10161

Flop: (t23370) 6 of spades 8 of diamonds 2 of diamonds (2 players – 1 is all in)

Turn: (t23370) 7 of diamonds (2 players – 1 is all in)

River: (t23370) 9 of diamonds (2 players – 1 is all in)

southpaw_r32
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June 9, 2011 - 11:54 pm
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Any reads on Villain here??? Has he been active?

 

What's your image like??? If you've been active then he might look you up light after you shove.

 

Kind of a tricky spot with TT.

 

If you 3bet to something like 2755 are you going to fold to this player if he 4bet/jams??? If you are then you're basically turning your hand into a bluff… you might as well play the hand blind. If you do 3bet smallish it also sets up a squeeze from the bigger stacks behind you. Have they been aggressive etc???

 

For me, I think in this spot it kind of comes down to player/table dynamics at the time.

 

Some of the time I might jam as you played it, some of the time I might 3bet smallish. If villain is a 'super nit' I fold the TT.

 

Any more info on the way the table/villain has been playing PRO???

 

 

G0liath
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June 10, 2011 - 12:44 am
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Do you want him to call or do you want him to fold?

I can’t see a decent player calling with less than JJ+ AK or folding any better hands so I don’t see a ton of value from doing this. You may as well have 89 suited

If he’s a loose fish and will call very wide or you have history that would make him call wide then jam for value. Otherwise I make it 2500 ish and take it down on most flops.

III PRO III
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June 10, 2011 - 4:10 am
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I thought u are suposed to 3bet shove a 25bb with 88+ AQ+, well this was a 28bb jam.

 

Either way 3bet 1010 and fold I think is bad weakiishhh and call to ge it all in  the flop or being scared of overs is bad too….so now i lookk at it kam and pray not to be a cooler

FkCoolers
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June 10, 2011 - 5:36 am
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Shove is excessive/spewy. Small antes and you remove all hands you dominate from his range usually and leave just unpaired broadways and better pairs.

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June 10, 2011 - 5:59 am
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whats the play here then, fold 1010 ? 3bet fold? Call Fold?

FkCoolers
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June 10, 2011 - 6:14 am
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Probably flat vs. someone on the tighter side and 3 bet get in vs. a LAG since they will play back with worse pairs.

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June 10, 2011 - 6:31 am
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OK.

Lately I have been counting BB instead of Tourney M, in this case its a M of 11 and for me would be a clear shove, but when I look at 28bb maybe a bit too much to shove.

How many BB would I need in this spot to shove on him then??? 25bb?? 22??

 

KingBustYou
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June 10, 2011 - 7:22 am
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You can either flat or reshove. Folding's pretty much out of the question unless villain's a total nit who only opens JJ+, AK+ and limps in all the rest.

Wouldnt flat if you had 25bb or less, then it would be a straight forward reshove. Also not sure flatting with 28bb is optimal as you're going to fold to a cbet on a lot of boards with broadway cards.

If any of the bigger stacks behind you have 3bet/squeezed a few times before you might flat with the intention to 4betjam to a squeeze if IR folds.

There's 2049 in the pot after villain opens and picking up that dead money by reshoving would increase your stack by almost 20%, so I dont really see a big problem reshoving 28bb with that incentive.

 

hawkeyeK9
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June 10, 2011 - 11:56 am
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Wow. Lots of different opinions here. smile

I do think 28bbs is too much to 3bet shove in middle position here. I am standard 3betting and going from there!!!!

sammyboy
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June 17, 2011 - 8:27 am
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obv a tricky spot hence the variety of responses….

 

But 2k+ in the middle is very nice addition to stack, unless opener is super nitty I'm getting it in.  If super nitty then a flat and go with it if favourable flop – obv the one we get is fav, possibly jamming his cbet if dry flop with one over…

 

Not very happy with 3bet ~2500 (6bb) and folding to 4bet or cbet if we get an over, I think I'd rather fold….

mmfitter
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June 17, 2011 - 12:46 pm
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I was taught you have to start being mindful wether it's a sub-optimal overshove if the jam is anything over 10x the or's bet, with about 12x being the cap in most cases.

So stackwise it's close but seems to be OK here. The only thing that seems questionable wether a shove is the optimum play here is that you're doing this with 4 ple yet to act. They will be getting pretty juicy pot odds if they feel like gambling.

I think this is clearly the most profitable play if u were in the blinds, but being in mp makes things pretty tricky here.

 

I'm pretty sure u can eliminate folding and 3bet/folding as being the best plays. If we're thinking of folding TT, we have to ask ouselves if shoving is more frofitable. If it is, then folding is a mistake. And 3bet/folding w TT is totally wasting the equity of the hand.

 Flatting may induce further action which we don't really  want and in a $5 mtt, pple flat with wrong stack sizes and with the wrong type hands like marginal b'ways all the time.

 So flatting is prob out.

That leaves us with 3bet/calling a shove by just about anyone after us. But we're not really 3 betting to induce a shove here, right? So we might as well be the ones that puts the

prussure on everyone else.

 

So after going over all the options, shoving here may be the most profitable play.

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