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Too deep to stack off with 88???
icantmtt
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December 10, 2013 - 6:52 pm
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Party poker $22 6 max 1k gtd 6 paid 12 left

Blinds 150-300 w antes

Just returned from break villain has won last two pots uncontested by open shoving and is back up to 8k chips

Hero has 8k chips loose agg image no-one giving any credit for hands

Table is sticky, lots of limping and check calling

Action: villain is utg and limps
Hero is utg+1 with 88 raises to 900
Folds around to villain
Villain tanks for 30 seconds then shoves
Hero ????

Phoebus
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December 10, 2013 - 7:05 pm
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Yeah your for sure too deep to call.

Vs really aggro players there I like to limp 88 behind so he doesn’t shove. If someone behind isos it’ll prolly be for 900 and if villain shoves we can get away from hand cheap. If he calls we can call behind and see a flop with implied odds.

If there are reshove stacks behind depending on reads and what original villain does we can call or fold.

WackyJuan
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December 11, 2013 - 12:44 pm
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I've found that often a 3rd shove in a row = super strength.  Easy fold here.  He's risking a 27bb stack, so this would be a soooper loose play with less than JJ.  I just wouldn't take the chance of calling here, and look for a better spot. 

I'm good with the 3bb raise that you made, unless villain has been prone to limp UTG with good hands.  You're deep enough where a 3bb bet/fold isn't a bad play, and it could often win you the pot, or at least iso the villain with you playing IP.

When you made the 3bb raise, did you have a plan for a villain reraise or shove?  Or another player's cold reraise or shove?  I try to always plan ahead when I call or raise, so that I'm not surprised by an opponent's play.

Thanks for the post,

Wacky

icantmtt
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December 11, 2013 - 6:04 pm
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Yeah this is the hand that busted me. I’m ok with it because I did have a plan and stuck to it.

I should have talked more about the dynamic at the table. Player on my left is super short with 4 bb I’ve witnessed him call and check down A8s in the sb bvb so if he wakes up with a hand so be it. Player in the sb has 24k chips and only raises premiums and limps/over calls a v wide range from all positions. If I get action from anyone other than villain I fold.

I’ve been targeting villains blind and battling in the blinds for a few orbits. He is loose passive. Tbh I think when he shoves he’s just over me. I’m not giving him credit for an overpaid given the sb’s tendencies I think he would raise. I think he has pairs smaller than mine and weaker broadway combos QJ QK JK AJ AT. I go with my read as I am 8 or 9 in chips and need to double to ft

WackyJuan
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December 11, 2013 - 6:36 pm
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So, since he's to your right I take it you've been attacking his SB from the BB?  How's he been reacting to your raises?  Fighting back with reraises, calling or folding?  If he's been folding or just calling, then his shove could've been b/c he's feeling “OI” and was tired of you.  I can understand a call here with this type of dynamic.  BUT, if you think he's “OI” and tilting, then maybe wait for a better spot as you'll have position on him in all but one hand every orbit, and you can raise his limps, or 3b and 4b him as the tourney goes on, making it difficult for him to play.  Sure, you need to at least double to ft, but at 27bb's you've got plenty of time to make moves.  If this guy is LP and you've got position on him, there's bound to be tons of spots that you can take advantage of in the next few rounds while you've still got lots of chips with room to play.

Thanks,

icantmtt
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December 11, 2013 - 6:41 pm
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It’s been 4 handed up to this point and I’ve been playing like a maniac (from they’re pov) . Been attacking his blind from utg 3 betting his limps bvb floating/raising his donks. He doesn’t raise all that often just calls and tries to see flop or folds

theginger45

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December 12, 2013 - 11:26 am
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Pretty unlikely I fold here. I mean, there's a decent chance he might be limp-shoving AA, but I've seen fish do this with AK a fair amount too, and also with a ton of small pairs. If hands like 44-77 are in his range then we probably have a ton of equity.

 

You have about 27bb – if the question is “is that too deep to stack off with 88 in general”, the answer is no. It's borderline, but to take it to the two extremes, you'd probably be better off if you always stacked off 88 for 27bb than if you never did. 88 is a very strong hand, and I'm not prepared to go around giving people who limp-tank-shove like this guy credit for having me beat often enough.

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