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Three from the button - I suspect my range is too wide in this position with 10-15bb, this time with (KQs).
derSchwartz
Sunday Major
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November 14, 2014 - 5:28 pm
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Hello TPE,

A few spots, all in Button-3 and all with between 9 and 15BB in late stages have been giving me the willies. My question is twofold:
– Am I being too wide by shoving here even though push/fold charts consider them pushes?
– Whether or not this is too wide, is it a close enough decision that these mistakes vs. correct decisions are only likely to affect our game a little bit, and we should focus on finding bigger leaks?

Merge Network $600 Gtd [Turbo, Deep] (79884624-1) No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t800.00/t1600.00 Blinds + t160.00 – 6 players – View hand 2608925
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

PackYourKnivesAndGo (BTN): BB = 27.3, t43681
pajic27 (SB): BB = 10.4, t16640
ATLmaddog31 (BB): BB = 13.3, t21280
Hero (UTG/Button-3): BB = 8.7, t13930
acesRidn88 (HJ): BB = 13.3, t21360
PuppyP (CO): BB = 6.8, t10881

Pre Flop: (t3360) Hero is with Q of spades K of spades

Hero?

Several weeks ago I posted a thread called “Push range in this simple FT spot?” with a similar situation, holding A7o and I got good responses.
Poster Al29 said that I should plug all the stack sizes and information into an ICM calculator and I have been trying to learn how to do that. I know what ICM is and how it works on a basic level, but I don't understand yet how to perform this particular ICM function – deriving the profitable push range in given FT spots. I have download Slice but don't see a tab on it that does this.

I am trying not to be results oriented, but in order to do this I must confront my results oriented demons. I can recall, for sure, that I have picked up nice pots uncontested here, boosting my stack by 15-20%, but I can also recall at least three bust outs very recently where I ran into exactly AK or AKs after pushing in exactly button-3.  Of course yet other times the hand run into is AA, KK, etc.

It's very possible and likely that this has just been the short term tendency that I've been seeing recently, and maybe I need to realize that the shove is profitable, considering uncontested pots + suckouts. But regardless, I must wonder if what I am seeing is truly a leak, that maybe I should tighten up the bottom of my shoving range in this particular position?

 

And the other part of the question – if it's too wide, is it actually a close enough decision that I could just choose which method I prefer and play it my best, knowing there's no huge mathematical edge between shoving or not shoving borderline hands? And therefore I can try to focus on other leaks?

Any comments are appreciated. If I am missing something obvious – a program that gives you a template for this push range calculation or a video that discusses this specifically, I'd most appreciate a point in its direction.

Thanks for reading!

DannyN13

TPE Pro
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November 14, 2014 - 8:33 pm
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I think you are overthinking this wayyyy too much. <10 bbs with KQs in a turbo from any postion is a slam dunk shove and this is 6 handed. The blinds are increasing fast, and you need to try and stay above average and keep your fold equity. If you had a hand like 98s and were questioning this spot, I can see where you are coming from. The range I would shove 6 handed deep in a turbo like this from your stack would be something like Ax, 22s+, 76s+, any broadway off the top of my head. When the blinds hit you (and they are coming fast 6 handed), you will barely have fold equity when shoving if you don't pick up a hand to go with in the blinds and thats if you even get a hand to shove. My general rule of thumb for turbos is that I am taking the first shove spot that comes to me from <7-8 bbs with any hand that plays somewhat well. KQs is the nuts at this point from your stack. I am even more comfortable with given stacks since there is only one guy who can call and not put him in the danger zone or bust if he loses.

DannyN13

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November 14, 2014 - 8:37 pm
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Oh and by the way, I am shoving up to 15 bbs in your spot with KQs in a turbo. Don't get this confused with reg speed.

lapp3r30
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
High Stakes Shark
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November 15, 2014 - 6:12 am
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Danny would you be shoving 15bbs if avg stack was 12bbs? Or would this now get into ICM calcs and chip distributions?

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