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(0 votes) 
February 23, 2016
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Do you think my line is bad here?Can i fold the river?
No Limit Holdem Tournament PokerStars
8 Players
$1.36+$0.14
Blinds 15/30 8
UTG Hero 1,224
UTG+1 Balkanian1 1,564
MP1 Pablo9CV 2,919
MP2 flavio.wb 1,697
CO OxidBurn 1,663
D riemen92 1,509
SB BoukasTak 1,447
BB smorgutt 1,477
8 77 Hero is UTG T K
Hero raises to 90, Balkanian1 calls 90, 1 fold, flavio.wb calls 90, 2 folds, BoukasTak calls 75, 1 fold
4 422 3 Q K
BoukasTak checks, Hero bets 282, 1 fold, flavio.wb calls 282, BoukasTak folds
2 986 9
Hero checks, flavio.wb bets 374, Hero calls 374
2 1,734 5
Hero checks, flavio.wb bets 658, Hero goes all-in 474
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Can you elaborate on your thinking? Why did you choose this line?
February 23, 2016
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I think i have to cbet the flop cause of many draws and value from Qx.9 on the river does not change much cause 10J is unlikely cause i have 10 blocker.So i dont know if check is good , i just wanted to see “where am i “.Once he bets small i think he has a very strong combo cause draws would have check back.On the turn i am confused about what i have to do cause the odds are to good to fold.On the river i was almost sure that he has sth like AK or KQ but it was a STT turbo so i decided to call my last 500 chips
December 30, 2015
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I was with you until the river. If you no longer think you are ahead, why call it off? It seems like your river thinking is in conflict with everything up until that point.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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A lot of this doesn’t make sense to me, to be honest. How does checking the turn help you to see “where am I”? It doesn’t seem like you are really hand reading (you mention a few hands V could have, but aren’t looking at his range as a whole) planning ahead at all. On the turn, you have approximately one pot-sized bet in your stack. You need to ask yourself two questions:
1. Will I have more than 35% equity (about what you need to break even) if the last of my chips goes into the pot?
2. If so, will I be in better shape if I do the betting or if my opponent does the betting?
I don’t think there’s any case for just calling on the turn, after you check. By check-calling the river, you ensure that if your opponent has you beat, all the money will go in if he wants it to. By sticking it in on the turn, you at least take that option away from him, rather than let him take free cards or free showdowns when he wants them and put the money in when he wants to.
And yes, to echo Movie’s question: what can you beat on the river?
February 23, 2016
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Nothing the river was a really bad call i know.So your line would be to bet turn? I dont unserstand why 35%.On the turn the pot has 1330 chips and we have to call for 374 , so its 3.5:1 odds , so sth like 22% to be breakeven
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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This is what I mean when I say that you aren’t planning ahead. I’m talking about making a decision, before you act on the turn, about whether you will commit all of your chips to the pot. You don’t yet know what your opponent will do if you check, what the river card will be, etc. You are still thinking about one particular decision (whether to call the turn bet) in isolation.
June 2, 2013
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STT KTs UTG is a fold pre flop. I even fold KQo here.
February 23, 2016
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I fold KQo too , but i open k10s early (it is the bottom of my range).Foucault cause i havent understood very well , you say that by calling i am pot commited so if i plan to call the river too , on the turn to calculate the odds i have to add not his bet but my stack to the odds? So 986+848/848 which is 2.16:1(that makes 31.5% as i calculate it if my thought is the right one)
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I’m saying that you need to compare your options and have some kind of plan before you check the turn. Things to consider:
1. If I check, am I going to call a bet?
2. If so, would I be better off making that bet myself?
3. If I check and call the turn, am I going to call non-spade rivers? If so, would I be better off check-raising the turn?
December 30, 2015
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An alternate question: Why not shove the turn instead of checking? What does one accomplish over the other.
A point on the last question (I hope by making this point I’m not reducing the value of the question for Kourou): “3. If I check and call the turn, am I going to call non-spade rivers? If so, would I be better off check-raising the turn?“
If we are going to call only non-spade rivers then we can’t check-raise the turn because it would be correct for V to call with spade draws; something like 470 to win 2870? ……oh…interesting…I drew a conclusion for what this means for our turn decision but I’ll omit it for now as I quite enjoyed getting there and I don’t think you intended the lesson for me…but thanks anyway, hah. …Man, I’m not thinking about future streets at this level yet.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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MovieFX said
An alternate question: Why not shove the turn instead of checking? What does one accomplish over the other.
A point on the last question (I hope by making this point I’m not reducing the value of the question for Kourou): “3. If I check and call the turn, am I going to call non-spade rivers? If so, would I be better off check-raising the turn?“
If we are going to call only non-spade rivers then we can’t check-raise the turn because it would be correct for V to call with spade draws; something like 470 to win 2870? ……oh…interesting…I drew a conclusion for what this means for our turn decision but I’ll omit it for now as I quite enjoyed getting there and I don’t think you intended the lesson for me…but thanks anyway, hah. …Man, I’m not thinking about future streets at this level yet.
It can be correct for you to raise and for Villain to call. Think about it: if you were V, and you had a spade draw here, would you prefer your opponent to call or raise you on the turn?
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