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Stoopid to shove here pre ?
rIkTa
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December 11, 2011 - 11:11 pm
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Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t40.00/t80.00 Blinds – 6 players

TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): t3470.00 43.38 BBs
SB: t5384.00 67.30 BBs
BB: t4710.00 58.88 BBs
UTG: t2616.00 32.70 BBs
MP: t2830.00 35.38 BBs
CO: t8032.00 100.40 BBs

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is BTN with A of diamonds K of spades
UTG raises to t240, 1 fold, CO calls t240
 

6max 8.80 tourney early..

 

Is this stoopid to shove here pre w 43bbs and take the raise and flat ?

 

or is 3bet going with it or 3bet evaluating the flop best all the time ?

 

Original raiser was very active, not sure what the flatter was doing ! Consider stakes.

 

DannyN13

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December 11, 2011 - 11:39 pm
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Yeah you don't want to shove here. Being 40+ bbs deep we want to 3bet- induce a shove from the original raiser with weaker parts of his range rather than forcing out some hands in his range that we are crushing and he won't call a shove with. Make it 3-3.5x the OR open and call a jam imo. You are on the button so less credit will be given to your 3bet as well.

mcgcanwin2
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December 12, 2011 - 12:16 am
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Im interested to see what people would do in this spot,as these are the stakes and type of tournament i regularly play (poorly!!)

I dont think a shove is great here i would prefer just to 3bet to up to maybe 500/600,to iso against the orignial raiser and put the CO to the test,by showing strenght, then evaluate the flop

Considering the utg has been active he could be raising with ak down to a8 suited or kq and even qj suited and pairs down to nines or even eights and may throw away some of these hands if there is a 3bet and also a big stack yet to act

I think the CO could be calling with anything down to 87 suited considering his stack size, and having pos,i think he would raise with aa,kk,qq and prob just calling with other pairs

With 43bb i would tend to stay away from the shove as i dont want to flipping,if i was down to under 30 i would consider it

SJOHN11
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December 12, 2011 - 4:09 pm
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3 Bet small hoping for the UTG with 32bb to shove. The CO call is weak and he has 100BB so i wouldnt be at all worried about him — by 3 betting small you may get the UTG to spaz out with a weaker A.

FkCoolers
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December 13, 2011 - 8:11 am
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Agree with Danny – I'd make it like 775-825 here and obv. calling off against a jam.

terbet11
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December 13, 2011 - 11:55 am
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I'm squeezing/3 betting to 725-75 to isolate and prepared to get it in if 4 bet.  I don't like 3 bets shoving this deep because I am trying to extract value with my premium at the same time reducing the variance of an all in situation this early in the tourney.

running0uts
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December 15, 2011 - 2:51 am
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I am also 3betting to 750-825. I don't like a smaller 3bet as it will price in the co to call with the initial raiser. I am calling a 4bet shove from either player.

hxcmf
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December 15, 2011 - 6:40 am
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Everyone is keen to sqz sqz sqz, there are many reasons to consider the slight improvement in chip ev may not justify swinging a stack (compared to flat)

 

– Edge in a $8.80 with a soft field

– IP with stack to maneuver, being IP 3way is powerful as we can see both players actions postflop (compared to if we were BB where OOP post with no initiative can be average)

– 3bb / 7% of our stack is nothing, leaves us with many chips for more +ceV spots in future play (compared to high variance sqz / barrell off where we may lose large chunks of our stack, get coolered etc.)

– We can outplay weaker villain who will give up and play face up often, check folding (compared to a $215 villain who will barrell frequently)

-bWe let villain value cut themselves with dominated A*, K* etc.

– Stacks are weird to sqz with 43bb (post flop will need really good bet size, small bets stack leveraging over multiple streets with good reads etc.)

– $8.8 buy in villain can be spaz and flat, foiling our plan to sqz call. end up playing post with a really bloated pot and no stack maneuverability 

– sqzing increases our chance of being range coolered and flatting keeps villains range widest

 

there are a lot of reasons to flat this sometimes.

maybe more often than not in the early stages of micros

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