This is not standard, but player dependent.  Without proper reads, it’s probably a fold, if the opener is wide enough then we can shove.  I think he needs to be opening something like 18%+ here and he’s probably calling top 5% and your A is a blocker to you being totally crushed, you have equity when called.  Against top 5% you are 30%. So blinds fold 95% each and if he’s opening 18%, he folds like 72% of the time.  Cutoff folds almost 100% as most of the call range would be a 3 bet if he had it.  If he calls with a weaker hand after it folds to him, great, you are 60/40 or flipping, ewhich is a good result too.  

So we have 65% FE and our hand is 30% so:

3600*65% + 35%([22268*30%] – 9934) = 1,251 +cEV.  Which is a 2 BB + expectation.  Taking money factors into account, this would be about the smallest edge I would want, maybe 1.5 BBs might be the lowest.  

So if the first player is opening wide enough, then it is a shove.  If he's adjusting to stacks expecting a shove form you or the BB, he's probably playing a little tighter than 18% here.  

I tank fold here on the regular, but given the CO flat, I’m much more inclinded to put my man pants on and shovel pre. The flatter’s call PFR/ and 3b % would go a long way here. 
The openers PFR and foldto3bet obv would help as well, but in my eyes this play is much more about stack sizes.

Am I in the ballpark here? Or is this logic flawed? The CO flat is an interesting dynamic 5handed

kingten102 said:

I think a fold is best.  You are likely to get called by one, and A8 just doesn't play that well against their calling  ranges. 

 

 

Actually, if the opener's range is wide enough, which is most imporant here, A8s is a good choice, as the A is a blocker to alot of hands that would likely call.  It reduces the amount of times he has AA, AK, AQ, and AJ hands from 54 possible hands to only 38.

kingten102 said:

I think a fold is best.  You are likely to get called by one, and A8 just doesn't play that well against their calling  ranges. 

 

Would you ship this hand if it was unsuited?  I know that shouldn't matter, but some players snap fold the A,8 offsuit, but feel inclined to jam the Suited Ax

If this were a higher buyin tournament, that flat from the CO would look super scary to me.  “good” players are often flatting big hands there to induce squeeze shoves from the “resteal” stacks (12-25 bbs ish ish)

 

Think we can def be more patient here and reshove hands with better equity against a single opponent or jam from LP with FE in the blinds on later hands.

5handed – A8s is pretty much the nuts. this one shove would net us the eqivalent of three open shoves.
Even extreme nits take these ft spots (or atleast strongly consider shoving),, under 20bbs shorthanded is pretty desperate time shiiz, 
again – look at the stacks, legit spot to force big folds from opener. Not really concered with the CO either way. sucks when CO shows A9-AJ, but aside from that i dont see us dominated that often.