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Common situation sry for a dry topic (like no one has read a post like this 
)
however…
Really would love to hear what TPE pro's and members think about these type of situations….
Call this shove pre with AQ for all my chips – or fold to play another round?
Thanks!
Kevin
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
nomalack (BTN): BB = 23.2, t23174
theclarkster (SB): BB = 7.0, t6959
AKluvR (BB): BB = 21.2, t21245
CreepyDonk (UTG): BB = 9.3, t9330
onebigfatrat (UTG+1): BB = 18.5, t18520
BooBz69 (MP1): BB = 12.9, t12877
Alduiz (MP2): BB = 30.6, t30594
SoSlow87 (CO): BB = 15.8, t15846
Pre Flop: (t2500) AKluvR is BB with A
Q
3 folds, Alduiz raises to t2000, 1 fold, nomalack raises to t23049 all in, 1 fold, AKluvR calls t20120 all in, 1 fold
Flop: (t45740) 8 3
K (2 players – 2 are all in)
Turn: (t45740) T (2 players – 2 are all in)
River: (t45740) 3 (2 players – 2 are all in)
<!–
Are we ITM or if this before the bubble?
Any reads on BTN Villian? If he's been ISO shoving all in constantly then I can probably find a call. We still have to consider the big stack who might have a monster.
Personally, I like to be the one going all in with AQ, NOT the one calling all in with AQ. We still have a stack if we fold and look for a better spot.
I probably fold this one. (depending on reads)
southpaw_r32 said:
Are we ITM or if this before the bubble?
Any reads on BTN Villian? If he's been ISO shoving all in constantly then I can probably find a call. We still have to consider the big stack who might have a monster.
Personally, I like to be the one going all in with AQ, NOT the one calling all in with AQ. We still have a stack if we fold and look for a better spot.
I probably fold this one. (depending on reads)
Already ITM, I think 30/370+
Table play has appeared to be tight, hard to tell sometimes in Rush
My steal/raise attempts had been effective last few orbits.
akluvrftp said:
southpaw_r32 said:
Personally, I like to be the one going all in with AQ, NOT the one calling all in with AQ. We still have a stack if we fold and look for a better spot.
I probably fold this one. (depending on reads)
This is a spot I seem to find myself in alot lately. My old style would have me folding this almost everytime unless I had AA-QQ or AKs. I recieved some input from a poker forum I respect and the consensus was I was to tight in this spot.
3 points they really made me think about everytime: opponents stack size, the raise amount and position.
The theme came down to how I didn't really understand what the ranges of shoves would be in that spot and that 'flips' to win are worth it in the long run.
AK+AQ , JJ-99 just seem to do nothing except criple me late in MTT play whenever I call into a similiar size stack.
I just don't want to change my play due to current results if it is in fact an optimal way to play; thats why I would like others opinion.
Thx
Kevin
i think thats an easy fold. you have a nice stack of 20BBs which gives you a lot of fold equity. Most importantly there has been a raise and reraise ahead of you which signals strength. If there had been just a raise then I would'nt mind the reshove with your stack at all. But the raise and then the reraise makes this a fold for me. I like the value a reshove gives you by picking up chips if he folds and if he calls then your hand still has great value. On the flip side if you have to call off all of your chips you are relying solely on the hand's value as there is no possibility that he will fold since he is all in.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
Offline
Cougars and I just talked about this hand. We thought it was pretty interesting. This is the kind of hand that would really depend a lot on reads so this being a $4 rush makes it quite leaves us without much of the information we'd normally use here. We tried to range this guy and I initially said AQ+, 99+ but Cougars had a wider range (77+, KQ+). I think the inclusion of KQ would make it a call but i'm not quite sure that's there.
I'll let him chime in on the dynamics which gives him reason to believe the range is wider.
RFB and I talked about this for a while. It's kind of hard to get a feel for the dynamics because it's a rush tourney and also a 4.40 tourney so you really never know what players could be thinking. At first glance I leaned towards fold but the more I thought about it and I'm probably giving to much credit to the players….Alduiz can r/f to 3/4 stacks behind him so he can really open a very wide range here knowing that he can r/f. By that same measure Nomalack can be 3b shoving here wide knowing that Alduiz range can be much wider then say all 4 opponents behind had 10bb stacks. Nomalack really just has to hope the bb doesnt wake up with a hand here. Yes, the sb does have 7bb but as long as Alduiz folds and nomalack isnt crushed he probably doesn't mind running a flip or 60/40 against the sb shortie with the dead money in the middle.
Now there is a very good chance I'm over thinking this but if Alduiz and Nomalack are thinking good players both their ranges could/should be wider then we first expect. At the same time this is rush though and I would imagine people are playing their cards more then focusing in on these variables
Another dynamic to consider is if we do get it in with AQ here we have a much better opportunity to get a top 3. I'm guessing these on demand tourneys kind of play like turbos based on the stack sizes at the table? No matter what if we were to win this hand we can really start to punish the table with our stack and win the thing a much higher percentage of the time.
Just some things to ponder….
Cougars4444 said:
Another dynamic to consider is if we do get it in with AQ here we have a much better opportunity to get a top 3. I'm guessing these on demand tourneys kind of play like turbos based on the stack sizes at the table? No matter what if we were to win this hand we can really start to punish the table with our stack and win the thing a much higher percentage of the time.
Just some things to ponder….
Indeed it is a turbo 5 min blind lvls, and towards the end they move fast. With probably <30 I was mid pack at 20K+ in chips @ 40k+ I run top 4 or 5 as I recall (chip leader had 54k I remember looking before I called).
Great insight into ranges and possibilities.
Good stuff ty !
Kevin
June 11, 2010
Offline
Cougars4444 said:
RFB and I talked about this for a while. It's kind of hard to get a feel for the dynamics because it's a rush tourney and also a 4.40 tourney so you really never know what players could be thinking. At first glance I leaned towards fold but the more I thought about it and I'm probably giving to much credit to the players….Alduiz can r/f to 3/4 stacks behind him so he can really open a very wide range here knowing that he can r/f. By that same measure Nomalack can be 3b shoving here wide knowing that Alduiz range can be much wider then say all 4 opponents behind had 10bb stacks. Nomalack really just has to hope the bb doesnt wake up with a hand here. Yes, the sb does have 7bb but as long as Alduiz folds and nomalack isnt crushed he probably doesn't mind running a flip or 60/40 against the sb shortie with the dead money in the middle.
Now there is a very good chance I'm over thinking this but if Alduiz and Nomalack are thinking good players both their ranges could/should be wider then we first expect. At the same time this is rush though and I would imagine people are playing their cards more then focusing in on these variables
Another dynamic to consider is if we do get it in with AQ here we have a much better opportunity to get a top 3. I'm guessing these on demand tourneys kind of play like turbos based on the stack sizes at the table? No matter what if we were to win this hand we can really start to punish the table with our stack and win the thing a much higher percentage of the time.
Just some things to ponder….
I think your points on the reads and analysis are really interesting, but I think they are more applicable to higher stacks (mid+ I am thinking). For a 4.40 Rush I think a lot of the time players are really just playing their cards and not the dynamics or the situation. I would be nervous about calling with AQo here, I think it is vulnerable and you still have the MP opener to act behind you. I think it is a nice 3bet shove by the guy in front of us and I fold, pissed he stole my spot. I think more often than not you see AK or are flipping against a PP (I am not opposed to flipping, but I much prefer to do it knowing that I am going to be HU, that third guy in the mix changes so much for me).
Same situation AQ in BB facing a decision to call or fold, much different dynamics IMO this time…..
Action goes limper / allin but I have the allin covered 2:1 in chips.
I am again in BB, with 30+BB's , just went ITM last hand, slower format MTT(not turbo). Stats on Shugak 45 hands = 4/9… 1 3bet.
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Shugak (SB): BB = 13.4, t8067
AKluvR (BB): BB = 30.1, t18058
irtish (UTG): BB = 7.8, t4708
cdw3s1215 (UTG+1): BB = 11.3, t6750
kulik_boris (MP): BB = 61.7, t37011
Predador_R10 (CO): BB = 84.3, t50578
Kaufman2004 (BTN): BB = 56.6, t33950
Pre Flop: (t1425) AKluvR is BB with A
Q
1 fold, cdw3s1215 calls t600, 3 folds, Shugak raises to t7992 all in, AKluvR calls t7392, cdw3s1215 calls t6075 all in
Flop: (t23184) 3 T A (3 players – 2 are all in)
Turn: (t23184) 7 (3 players – 2 are all in)
River: (t23184) K (3 players – 2 are all in)
<!–
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
Offline
Stacks are a lot different here. Your SB could be pretty desperate at this point. I'm sure you ahve his range crushed. Can't really worry too much about the limper. Sometimes they limp with AA here but most of time it's weak garbage and you have some nice overlay.
May 26, 2010
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LesPaulGman said it best…
“I think your points on the reads and analysis are really interesting, but I think they are more applicable to higher stacks (mid+ I am thinking). For a 4.40 Rush I think a lot of the time players are really just playing their cards and not the dynamics or the situation.”
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read this. It's a 4.40 Rush MTT. There is not much multi level thinking going on down here, trust me lol. Players are playing their cards for the most part. For me there is way to much action to get it in here. Find a better spot 🙂
what's the “rush” with 22 bbs left…hehe
The 2nd hand I get it in with AQ very quickly based on the fact that sb could be weak and there is a lot of money to be won in the pot. The first one is totally interesting, and really depends on how 4.40 rushes are played. Since I have no experience at those stakes lately and hardly any experience with rush, I don't think I can really give a valid opinion on this one.
Have to admit the only reason I posted the second hand was directly from feedback from this forum.
Numerous times it was said that people at these levels tend to play their hands and not much else.
It was a $2 MTT on demand – just made it into money.
The villian has silly tight stats. 9% played 4% raise which is 1 hand he raised of the 45 he was dealt.
I snap called this and didnt think twice…however…
after I read all the comments on this post I went back and found this specific hand to check what his stats were. He had jammed allin with KK and I wondered if I just couldnt put the pieces of the puzzle together.
Total results thinking, no doubt.
There is no way I actualy fold in that spot as a 2:1 chip favorite. It just really made me think about the comments in this forum post and how it just confirmed what was said ..was interesting.
Thx!
Kevin
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