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small pairs late in tournament
danrose29
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May 7, 2013 - 4:50 am
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does anyone know what the correct play is here i never know what to do there are twenty players left in mtt out of 1000,

you have 33 or 44 in early position with 20bbs or 19 or 18 bbs, what do you do here shove or fold? Min raising seems like weak play because often bb will call for value and outflop you, im just never sure what to do here with 20bbs? ty

danrose29
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May 7, 2013 - 4:53 am
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sorry 18 players left not shorthanded full table

rodrigorpv
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May 7, 2013 - 7:08 am
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Hi bro…

I would say that depends on many things…

If we got 18 players means we got 2 full ring tables, so normally some few players came from other table short time ago…

Now the question u have to ask yourself is:

– How is the table playing???
– How is my image in this table???
– Is there any aggro player that normally raise and re-raise pleople sitting on my left???
– If I open here and get 3 bet, do i feel confortable in shove or fold???

My whole point here is: with 20bbs may look like u dont have much room to work but actually depends on who u playing against 20bb is heaps to work…
Some tables are so soft that u can open/fold 16-15bbs, coz u know if they come over the top they are loaded (and not because they adjust)…

“”Min raising seems like weak play because often bb will call for value and outflop you…“”
Its totally standard min raise when u opening coz we are in late stages of tournament and here is more than normal only mini raise when u open, and u cant really affirm that he will call em outflop you, u are the one with posicion, u are the PF agressor…

Bro I hope I helped a bit…

Good luck on the tables…

danrose29
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May 7, 2013 - 7:48 am
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ty for reply but i dont see point still in opening 22 33 44 20bbs early position if u get called ur hand sucks unless u hit set and what do u do bet fold? bet flop and fold if he raises  bets turn? if u bet flop fold turn uve lost like 56 bbs playing hand u cudda folded pre

danrose29
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May 7, 2013 - 7:50 am
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5 or 6bbs not 56 bbs

FkCoolers
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May 7, 2013 - 8:34 am
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danrose29 said:

does anyone know what the correct play is here i never know what to do there are twenty players left in mtt out of 1000,

you have 33 or 44 in early position with 20bbs or 19 or 18 bbs, what do you do here shove or fold? Min raising seems like weak play because often bb will call for value and outflop you, im just never sure what to do here with 20bbs? ty

Either raise or fold – shoving is -EV or break even at best. 

Decision to raise/fold will depend on lots of table dynamics including your perceived image. 

Foucault

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May 7, 2013 - 11:58 am
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Good question. You're right that it's tough to win the pot unimproved with these small pairs postflop, so you have to consider other potential sources of value. As others have pointed out, it's going to be -EV to open shove 20BBs with 22 UTG, so don't do that. 

If you choose to minraise a small pair, most of the value will come from stealing the blinds, so you need to assess the likelihood of that. A guy could make a couple of videos on that subject, so it's too much to get into here.

Also, although you might generally be planning to fold to a 3bet, there may be a few short stacks at the table you can profitably call. This makes a small pair a better bluff-raising hand than some other cards you'd otherwise be folding. 

Finally, the fact that you'll sometimes flop a set does increase the value to you of seeing a flop. So if you think there's a good chance BB will call you, and there often is if you minraise, then you're better off going for a steal with 33 than with K5o. Even if you generally give up postflop, just having the chance to flop a set increases your equity considerably.

In short, raising with these hands from EP will mostly be a bluff, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, because they are often among the better bluffing candidates.

danrose29
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May 7, 2013 - 12:54 pm
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ty for this comment i was talking to an mtt pro i know and he said he rather open 20bbs with kq early position than small pairs just because you will flop top pair often whether or not its good is another question but i kinda agree but i know it sounds nitty bt vs good players not fishes ive lost many big pots opening kq early position, cagey players flat ak aq qq kk aa. I was late in mtt short handed 12 players left i open kj utg tight guy flats early pos and flop k27 i c bet he raises all in 18-20bbs i think i should fold here but i call he has aa but i really sh ould of realised hes playing so nitty that hes waiting for big hand or big spot to double up. Anyway ty i used to sometimes shove 22 33 utg i wont do it anymore

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