June 9, 2013
I’m pretty sure I shot myself in the foot here but I would like to here people’s thoughts on how they play this differently.
Live tournament £45 buy in with £4500 prize pool (£1.4k for 1st)
20/95 remaining 10 places paid. Blinds 1.5/3k 300 ante. Average stack 85k
Ok so I’m dealt Qc Qd in mp+2 9 handed (90k ish stack) it’s folded round to mp+1 who limps in and I raise to 12k. It folds to the button who calls and mp+1 also calls. Mp+1 has limp folded to 3 of my squeezes in recent hands and raised twice pre flop with AK and JJ so when he calls im putting him maybe on a smallpocket pair or AJ/KQ kind of hand. I have no reads on button other than he has around 70k in chips.
Flop: Qh 7c 3d (pot 42kish)
Dream flop for me here but this is where things go tits up. Mp1 checks and I check back hoping the button bets out and I can get some value from my hand. I’m hoping one of them has caught a 7, smaller set or even hit the Q with a KQ sort of hand though that’s unlikely. Also go given the board texture I felt I could give them a free card and hope they improve on the turn. I’m not worried about a turned set of kings or aces as they would have 3bet pre. Button bets 15k anyway and mp1 calls. Check raising here looks very strong and likely gets two folds so I decide to flat (1) and decide to shut it down with a check raise on the turn, hoping to get value off smaller pairs or sets. (2)
Turn comes 5c. (Pot 97k)
Mp1 checks and I check without thinking (3) given that i had already made my mind up to check/raise and expecting button to lead out again. Button checks.
Flop 10c
I’m not liking this card but I figured if the button had turned a flush draw he would continue and try to either get two folds or get value if he hits (4) I’m pretty sure mp1 hasn’t got a hand here as he has played so passive. I make a value bet of 25k (5)hoping to be called by most pairs/sets and button shoves his 40k ish stack. Mp1 folds and I call Button shows KJc for the flush.
So to me this is a combination of a bad beat and me not knowing when to stop slow playing and shut down the hand. I’m aware there are a few spots where I played this badly so I’d like a line check from you guys if possible.
1. Is the check/call here ok or should I always Cbet? Am I right to think check/raising kills my action?
2. Assuming you play the flop as I did, what action do you take on the turn. Check/raising or lead out? Obviously this is card dependent so given the turn was a club, what should I have done?
3. This was pretty terrible from me I think. In retrospect I think the right play here would have been a 2/3 pot bet to shut it down or force drawing hands to fold at least
4. Does this make sense?
5. Is it worth betting here given that I’m crushed if has hit the flush and reshoves? If I check, is it going all in regardless or can I really check fold to his shove?
Thanks in advance for the hopefully constructive criticism. I know I played it pretty bad so I just want to know how I should have played it better on flop/turn really.
November 8, 2010
May 30, 2012
I wouldn't beat yourself up on this hand. I don't think you played it bad. It's just a sick suckout run out. But, I'll assume this was a fast structure. Normally I would say to make your 3bet a bit smaller, but in this type of fast structure that's fine.
I do think you should have done things slightly different. On the flop after you chk, they go bet 15k, call….. I think you should have raised. At this point, unless I have it wrong, you were down to 78k, you call the 15k now your at 63k w/ the turn and river to come…… Without you raising, there's 97k in the pot and you have 63k left. You are pretty much pot committed no matter what the turn card is. Your goal is to get all the money in there at some point. If there's that much in why not go all in. You win the pot you're at 160k+ I do think your slow play hurt you here because of how much was in the pot. At times you have to be happy to win a nice pot and not a HUGE pot. You do what to get extreme value for your premium hands, but you don't want this to happen.
On a side note, I do think teh button played it really bad, raising on the flop to 15k. Leaving himself with 20bb's. He's just spewing away chips at that point and gets super lucky when he should never have won.
May 30, 2012
I will add that no matter how much you bet on the turn I'm pretty sure the moh-moh on the button is calling. If he's leading out with bullshit then hits his flush draw on the turn, he's NEVER folding it regardless of the bet. Again, this is a smaller fast turbo type tourney w/ calling stations who never know when to fold.
May 1, 2013
I think your flop check is fine and check calling flop seems fine as board is non threatening abd you do want to win big pot, but im not checking this turn im betting it alomost everytime especially multi way, if someone has set or two pair you can get it in with them on turn and i dont want to give a free one to backdoor flush draws, id bet biggish on turn, but if hes fishy maybe he calls anyway and you lose but id defo bet turn here.
i was playing big 22 a week ago and i called an utg raise with 77 and sb called too and flop came like 7510 rainbow, utg checked and i normally bet this board even with set but i checked behind and turn was 8 i bet turn and the sb made very big raise i called raise and folded to his river shove on unpaired board i just felt he has a straight here a lot of the time,
its possible he has 96 suited and if i bet flop big he may fold his gutshot but i let him get there(possibly) for free and ended up losing a decent chunk by slowplaying. I learned my lesson next time i flop bottom middle set il bet it every time.
gl anyway Dan
June 9, 2013
Cheers guys. I wrote this post soon after busting so perhaps I was just a little bit p***ed at myself for busting like that but I think as you guys say, this guy is probably getting it all in with 20 bb if I shove the turn anyway when he picks up the draw. Interesting what Paire 146 says I should have check raised the flop, I see what you mean by pot committing myself and worst case scenario I pick up a nice pot I guess.
Oh well, on to the next one…!
May 30, 2012
Like you said Sir, on to the next one. Nothing you can do. Sure, could you have played it differently. But, learn from the situation and get better. I have to admit, I think 40% of the time, I play it like you did and slow and get crushed by a moh-moh at the end. That's the way it goes at times, but Im sure you are going to return the favor on someone else in the future. good luck sir.
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