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May 5, 2017
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Hi guys,
So yesterday I’m playing the 330 buy in deep stack tourney at the local casino. 18 players left blinds are 500/1000 with 100 ante. 30 minute levels. Top 5 cash.
UTG+1 has 15,000 raises to 3,000
Me 20,000 shove my 99s in the HJ
BB has a monster stack and calls….UTG+1 FOLDS…BB flips over 10’s…His 10’s hold up and im out…
I don’t know if this was the right move or wrong move. Should I have just flat called? UTG+1 just got to the table so I really didn’t have a lot of information on him. He said he folded JJ..
Any advice would be great….thanks
February 5, 2015
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Hey Mikkell!
Welcome to the forums!
Firstly you were unlucky the BB with the big stack had the tens there. Most times players behind the HJ are not going to wake up with anything, and although you must consider the possibility a late position player will sometimes have a big hand, I don’t think it is the central issue here.
I wonder what the average stack was? 30 minute levels…I don’t know man, I like your play fine if you had been under more pressure. Personally I think I fold 99 here at this stage of the tourney, and keep my 20 bigs for a better spot.
I know you allude to having no info. on UTG1, so I am not being too helpful when I tell you that this is a very player specific decision.
I tell you one thing…I am not 3-bet folding. If you are going to play your 99’s here I prefer the shove. But honestly I feel you a) are not yet desperate enough to be needing to shove this hand here, and b) don’t have enough of a read on UTG1 to make the shove.
And to answer your question, no I am not calling. Too vulnerable to set up the squeeze from a player behind at these stack depths, and way, way too short to be set mining.
Under ICM conditions I am way more inclined to shove here.
May 5, 2017
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Hi Riceman,
I believe average stack was like 45bb. Not 100% certain though. Thanks for the input though. I really appreciate it.
February 5, 2015
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Even so, by no means are we desperate with 20 bigs.
Hey! I’m not Phil Ivey over here, so hopefully others will chime in. Matt (Ginger45) the TPE pro always has some great thoughts around push/ fold. IIRC I used to see him in 180 mans on Stars years back, he was a reg as I was a noob.
He is a great source of push/ fold wisdom here at TPE.
Glad to give you my thoughts, the forums are perhaps the best way to learn imo. Oftentimes I shall give my “concrete” advice, only to have it smashed to pieces by others’ wisdom. I love the forums!
May 5, 2017
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I just watched a video last night of Matt playing in a Sunday Swordfish. He actually had something similar like my play. He did the same thing I did!!! When he went over it he said he should of folded. Wish I would of saw that video last week….
May 30, 2012
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I’m prob folding this because of what the Opening player did. He’s down to 18bbs and raises. That should have set off ALARMS. In most cases that is a monster. Yea, 20bbs from early w/ 99 is nice, but I think you still have time for a slightly better spot. You should NEVER flat in this spot with so many others behind and your stack. It sucks that you got calls after your jam with better, but that original players 3x open is horrible. I’ll assume that this is a daily tourney of sorts. If that’s the case, then you have to expect bad play like that. It’s not Ivey, Bonomo, BigDog or Joe McKehan playing.
February 2, 2013
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I think I would fold 99 in this spot as the early position raise looks strong.
Hey P-aire, what is so horrible about the openers 3x. .2.2-2.5 might be better but half a blind more is not going to make that much difference to his stack and the 3x is harder for anyone to call
May 30, 2012
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Hey Smallcat…….. I don’t think I read the post wrong. But the OR has 15bbs and open raises 3bbs, then FOLDS. That seems bad to me. Why not just jam if you are going to come into a pot with just 15bbs. He doesn’t have a ton of chips to waste. Seems like a spew of sorts to me. Unless I’m missing some information on what their stack sizes were. Plus there not close to the money bubble.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Nothing wrong with this at all. Flat-calling isn’t an option here vs a 3x raise, the SPR will be unworkable and you might not go heads-up. Villain is likely 3xing with a range of hands that definitely contains some folds to your shove, and 99 is strong enough that if villain is ever folding, you’re probably printing money given the equity you have when called.
With regard to villain’s raise-fold, raise-folding 15bb is completely fine in and of itself – if you never do that, you’re making tons of mistakes – but the mistake is the sizing. 3x from a 15x stack is inappropriate in early position with so many players left to act behind. Villain should be minraising or folding here (if you disregarding adopting a limping strategy in this spot, which I think is valid in the right circumstances).
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