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Ship or not to ship...
twistedfocus
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February 26, 2014 - 1:43 pm
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BTN: BB = 33.3, t199553
Hero (SB): BB = 42.7, t256224
BB: BB = 41.9, t251414
UTG: BB = 21.9, t131502
UTG+1: BB = 8.3, t49918
MP: BB = 8.5, t50940
CO: BB = 20.7, t124067

Pre Flop: (t13200) Hero is SB with A of hearts J of hearts
4 folds, BTN calls t6000, Hero raises to t13855.00, BB raises to t32810.00, BTN calls t26810, Hero raises to t72000.00, 1 fold, BTN calls t39190

Flop: (t181010) Q of spades 7 of hearts 4 of diamonds (2 players)
Hero bets t183624 all in, BTN folds

Final Pot: t181010
Hero mucks A of hearts J of hearts
Hero wins t181010.00

MTT is down to 14 people.


Should I just ship it over making the 72k 4bet?  My stack size I feel makes this an odd spot for me. Is a 4bet jam ok with this stack size. Also I was 2nd or 3rd in chips at this point.  What do you guys think about my jam on the flop? Any thoughts??

MrPunty
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February 26, 2014 - 2:07 pm
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Everything about this hand is really bizarre. A little more context (in the form of reads and stats, and info about the stakes) might be helpful, although the preflop action alone makes the BTN seem like a very weak-passive. Not sure if you had a read on the BB or just figured that people go apeshit from the blinds in spots like these.

Your iso sizing seems a little small to me – imagine how this hand plays out if the BB had folded and the BTN flatted. Then there's the other universe where the BB ships over your four bet. Are you calling?

As played, the BTN's line makes me think his range consists of hands that he really wants to see a flop with and then hit it and win (small/medium pairs, suited connectors). This is the perfect flop against that range because it's both light and dry. I'd expect him to fold close to all of his air to almost any sizing; so the question is whether shoving will get him to fold hands you are behind and that a 1/3 PSB won't – 87s, 76s, 88-TT (I'd expect a normal c-bet to fold out 22-33 and 55-66), or a very passively played AK. There's also the secondary question of whether you might get called by worse – a stubborn ATs or other suited Ax, 86s, 65s (which you're barely ahead of). Balance these considerations against how shitty your equity is vs a made hand that will call you no matter what (you have ~17% against Qx hands, 4% against sets) and I'd lean towards a smaller c-bet, especially since Mr. Passive Pants isn't going to ship over you light.

twistedfocus
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February 26, 2014 - 4:08 pm
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Here's my hud stats on them. BB  463 hands 23/15 vpip  guy in small was a huge fish if I remember right.  29/12 vpip. was calling everything and folding to cbet or raising if he had it.  So spot on with your read. This is a $2 700GTD on merge. Still building my roll.. 🙂

 

“Then there's the other universe where the BB ships over your four bet. Are you calling?”  i thought about this while in the hand and i was going to fold. My thinking was I still have over 20bigs behind and I was deep in the mtt.  That would have made me sick… lol

 

Flop:  would you Cbet fold to his allin?

 

thanks

EllDan
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February 26, 2014 - 10:47 pm
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3-bet from the BB looks pretty strong. I’m flating pre and avaluating the flop. AJ suited has very few 3-betting hands dominated. Flipping at best. Two shorties at the table making ICM a factor.

twistedfocus
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February 26, 2014 - 11:54 pm
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Flat his 3bet.  I feel like thats giving chips away if I do that in SB. What do I do to his cbet on the flop?   Also the pot had 80k or so in it before my 4bet. Not sure I agree with your line here.

Good food for thought.  Thanks for the feed back.

Flicka
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February 27, 2014 - 5:03 am
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Hi,

What was the buyin for the tournament?

Was this a live or online?

without knowing this to me the Buttons play seems very strange. If he was just stealing the blinds he should have folded to the BB 3bet so seems that he has some kind of hand. But not a hand he would like to 4 bet. So I would have probaply folded as the hero on the SB after the BTN calls, since I feel AJ is a flip at best. unless you have some history with the BB. But I would not have called. Either 4 bet with reads or fold.

But then BTN still calls your 4bet it gets even more strange. I think it looks somethin like 88,99,TT, JJ. because you should not be calling with KQ, KJ, Ax a 4bet. and with small pairs you do not get the odds to set mine anymore. And I think AA, KK an QQ would have already showed by now.

CCuster 911
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February 27, 2014 - 12:36 pm
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I would definitely not flat his 3 bet OOp wit this hand.  If we think he is light often, I dont mind a 4bet, but it needs to be bigger than this, to allow flop to be easier.  Something like 85-90k is good.  Sets up easy flop shove. 

 

Once BB folds, I am shoving 100% of flops, unless I am nutted on it, and want villain(who is obviously bad) to hang himself.

 

Another thing of note is I would riase more pre flop.  Being OOP, even agaisnt a drooler, we want to maximize the amount he is putting in, and not let him just get to flop with humungous SPR.  I would make it like 17-20k.

 

Shoving over the 3 bet is fine, a little deep, esecpailly with a abd BTN who can do somethnig like this,and flat then fold.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

twistedfocus
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February 27, 2014 - 5:32 pm
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Thanks for the feed back. I'm looking at my hand history's now and I see a lot of what you're saying when it comes to my  bet sizing.  I will work on this in the future.

 

Thanks again

 

Flicka   this is a $2   700GTD on merge. I think I was 2/11 at the time.

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