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Set on the flop vs river shove with extremely wet board
Maniackid11
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September 13, 2018 - 11:32 pm
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Ok, I guess it’s best to first address what I am asking. I think I played this poorly and I honestly don’t know why. Maybe I should be checking flop, firing turn/river. IDK. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

WPN, 150/300 blinds, 30 ante No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 4,996 (16.7 bb)
BB: 6,710 (22.4 bb)
UTG+2: 17,544 (58.5 bb)
MP1: 1,008 (3.4 bb)
MP2: 33,696 (112.3 bb)
MP3: 7,396 (24.7 bb)
CO: 17,910 (59.7 bb)
Hero (BTN): 22,007 (73.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 2club 2heart
2 folds, MP2 calls 300, MP3 calls 300, CO calls 300, Hero calls 300, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: (2,040) 9diamond 7heart 2diamond (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets 1,530, 4 folds, CO calls 1,530

Turn: (5,100) Jdiamond (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: (5,100) Tspade (2 players)
CO bets 16,050 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results:[spoil] 5,100 pot
Final Board: 9diamond 7heart 2diamond Jdiamond Tspade
CO mucked and won 5,100 (3,240 net)
Hero mucked 2club 2heart and lost (-1,860 net)
[/spoil]

Maniackid11
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September 13, 2018 - 11:42 pm
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I also want to add: I have a ton of videos I plan to watch by Andrew. I post in here first because usually it helps getting a general understanding of something or ties into things he teaches in his videos. So if he has a series that covers this, it’s more than likely I have it downloaded. That being said,I can’t give him ALL the credit, you guys have been a ton helpful, too.

Foucault

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September 15, 2018 - 9:09 am
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I think you played it perfectly. Sometimes you just get bad turn cards, doesn’t mean you did anything wrong. It seems like you’re trying to wait for a situation where you’ll have a sure thing. Like, wait to see the turn isn’t a diamond before you bet. But poker isn’t about sure things, it’s about +EV wagers. On the flop you are wagering that you will still have the best hand on the river, and despite the presence of draws, you’re a favorite on that wager, which makes it a good one. You want to put money in the pot at this point, and you did.

On the turn, your odds of having the best hand go way down. That makes putting money in the pot less desirable, and you chose not to do so. Now if you knew on the flop that this was going to be the turn card, maybe you would have played it differently, but you didn’t know that, and you made the best decision you could with the information you had. That’s what poker is all about.

On the river, it’s good that you didn’t get too attached to the absolute value of your hand. You’ve got to play the hand you have, not the hand you had. On the flop, you probably had high hopes of winning the pot, maybe even a big pot, but it didn’t pan out. Facing a shove on this river, it doesn’t matter that you have a set. It might as well be middle pair: he’s either bluffing, or he can beat a set. And I don’t think he’s bluffing. Good fold.

Maniackid11
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September 15, 2018 - 10:59 am
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Andrew, thank you. I have been working really hard to get a response like this, esp. from you. I have been trying my best to apply everything I’ve learned so far. Thank you, sir.

rppoker
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September 18, 2018 - 2:36 pm
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Maniackid11 said
Ok, I guess it’s best to first address what I am asking. I think I played this poorly and I honestly don’t know why. Maybe I should be checking flop, firing turn/river. IDK. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

WPN, 150/300 blinds, 30 ante No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 4,996 (16.7 bb)
BB: 6,710 (22.4 bb)
UTG+2: 17,544 (58.5 bb)
MP1: 1,008 (3.4 bb)
MP2: 33,696 (112.3 bb)
MP3: 7,396 (24.7 bb)
CO: 17,910 (59.7 bb)
Hero (BTN): 22,007 (73.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 2club 2heart
2 folds, MP2 calls 300, MP3 calls 300, CO calls 300, Hero calls 300, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: (2,040) 9diamond 7heart 2diamond (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets 1,530, 4 folds, CO calls 1,530

Turn: (5,100) Jdiamond (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

River: (5,100) Tspade (2 players)
CO bets 16,050 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results:[spoil] 5,100 pot
Final Board: 9diamond 7heart 2diamond Jdiamond Tspade
CO mucked and won 5,100 (3,240 net)
Hero mucked 2club 2heart and lost (-1,860 net)
[/spoil]  

Obviously, it somewhat depends a little on how the villain has been playing. Is he bluffing a ton? Is he a rock? Without having that information, I think we look at ranges in a vacuum.

Pre-flop he calls a pot where two people have already limped. If he has a monster it seems like he would raise since AA, AK, etc. doesn’t play as well multi-way as it does head’s up. So we are probably looking at a low to medium pair where he will be set mining or medium suited connectors or something like A-10 suited where he hopes to flop the world.

After the flop you bet and he just calls. He either just calls with a straight draw (8-10, 6-8) or a diamond flush draw for unmade hands or he might have a set of 7s or 9s which has you crushed. I suppose he could be floating with two over cards but A-K we already said seems unlikely to have that since he didn’t raise pre-flop into multiple limpers. Or he could have pure air and has a plan to take away the pot later in the hand. All things being equal, I think you are likely ahead at this point.

The flop is the jack of diamonds. The flush draw just got there. A straight (8-10) just got there. The fact that he checks means he either is slow playing (set over set, straight or flush) to induce or has pure air. I suppose ace-9 might check hoping to get to showdown inexpensively. Pure air would check if he has simply given up, although pure air might also take a stab at the pot.

The turn is a 10 and even more straights just got there. Now he shoves all in. Given that you checked the turn I suppose it is possible he thinks you are showing weakness and jammed. So you beat a pure bluff and maybe something like one pair with a 9, 10 or jack or two pair that hit late in the hand. On the other hand, you are beat by a ton. Straights got there, flushes got there, set over set. The way the hand was played I think it is way more likely that he shoves having you beat. While it was an exciting flop, I think folding is the right decision (unless he is a maniac who bluffs constantly even then I think he probably got there to have you beat).

I think it was a good, but painful, fold.

rppoker
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September 18, 2018 - 2:38 pm
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I mistakenly said the flop is the jack of diamonds, but I meant the turn. I mistakenly set the turn is a 10 but I meant the river. Sorry.

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