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SB vs BB play
isaacjames
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March 29, 2011 - 3:02 pm
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I seem to be having trouble in these spots.  Villain stats over 35 hands are 23/3 Aggr frequency 25% Aggr factor 2.0.  Please comment on action on river. Bet/call? bet fold? check call? or check fold?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t200/t400 Blinds + t50 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

CO: BB = 33.5, t13400
BTN: BB = 23.0, t9187
Hero (SB): BB = 46.9, t18776
BB: BB = 37.5, t15002
UTG: BB = 14.5, t5803
UTG+1: BB = 29.8, t11935
UTG+2: BB = 48.4, t19342
MP1: BB = 30.8, t12316
MP2: BB = 116.5, t46587

Pre Flop: (t1050) Hero is SB with A of diamonds 8 of hearts
7 folds, Hero raises to t1200, BB calls t800

Flop: (t2850) 7 of clubs A of clubs K of clubs (2 players)
Hero bets t2000, BB calls t2000

Turn: (t6850) 5 of spades (2 players)
Hero bets t1600, BB calls t1600

River: (t10050) 8 of diamonds (2 players)
Hero ????

sammyboy
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March 29, 2011 - 3:39 pm
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my default play would be to check call, hoping to induce bluff from busted draw but with his non aggro stats might not get that, still it keeps the pot from getting too big…

 

most likely on pair and busted fd, would surely raise trips on that flop (even with his stats), so I bet small for value, if he comes over the top you know youre beat

about 3750 i reckon, maybe less – those stats tell us he's not bluff raising often, if at all….

G0liath
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March 29, 2011 - 4:03 pm
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My first thought is your image. If you’ve been crazy bet bet betting in previous hands then he could hero call you pretty light, so just bet big for value. Especially since it’s bvb they never believe you have much.

Otherwise he probably just has a weak ace or a missed club draw possibly with a pair for some sort of sd equity, he’s gonna wanna see a cheap showdown so bet pretty small in order to get paid off.

If youve been seen to give up on a pot after taking the lead then you might wanna Check/call. OR you think he’s capable of turning a naked busted flush draw into a bluff then check/call also.

Im never folding though at $2 tourney, if he has you gg just fire up another

slimb0
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March 29, 2011 - 8:30 pm
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I think check/calling and bet/folding are teh plays. My line would probably be to check/call, although you do have an arguement that he's not very aggressive I feel like if he did only have a bare club and his only way to win the pot was to bet than he may bet.  As for your image I don't think it is that big of a deal here. I feel like if a guy is playing 23/3 and doesn't know its bad, then hes not capable of following the gameflow and formulating strategies based on how you've been playing, that and its a $2 mtt.

G0liath
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March 29, 2011 - 9:14 pm
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Don’t think you can bet/fold here as the villain only has a pot size bet remaining. If I’m planning on betting half pot and folding to a shove getting 3/1 I would rather just check/call. Plus at this buyin villain may have slowplayed AQ and decided to shove the river for value once the 4th club doesn’t come or have K8 or some other 2 pair. you can’t fold 2 pair with only a pot effective stack remaining at a $2, your folding the best hand too often.

I do think you underestimate the way people think at these buy ins. They generally are not multi-tabling, so they’re gonna notice your playing overly agressive and decide they’re gonna do something about it. (generally just calling off lighter). These days the random fish has at least read one poker magazine and knows he as to stand up to a bully. By ‘your image’ I didnt mean that hes paying attention to how many times you’ve cbet flop and turn in the last 3 orbits.

isaacjames
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March 30, 2011 - 6:35 pm
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Okay so I ended up taking the most aggr line by bet calling.  He showed the nut flush QclubJclub.   The reason (and I remember G0liath mentioned in one post before….) is that I believe you need to get value in every street against stations, I agree with that as he would be calling with worst even on these very wet boards. Lots of aces and worst 2 pairs etc…  SO IMO Betting is a must here, but once he raised I should have folded since he hardly shows aggression. against a more balanced or aggresive player I call.

 

I do think in general especially once in the money we underestimate the level of play at these levels.  There are many grinders playing this every day,  or people on a downswing from higher buyins trying to rebuild their bankrolls (like me right nowembarassed) and up and comers that are very good and are studying and paying attention to everything.  The problem to me at these levels is that there is such a wide quality in players it is much harder (or less likely to be correct) to make general assumptions

bennymacca
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March 30, 2011 - 7:20 pm
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just a side note – i think your raise size is too big preflop, something like 950 would have been better. 

 

 

G0liath
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March 30, 2011 - 8:52 pm
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An aggression factor of 2 isn’t actually too passive. In my experience it’s about average, remember he’s calling half as many times as he’s betting/raising. So he’s not overly passive. Anything around ag factor of 1 or under you should dive for cover whenever they bet out in my experience.

Totally agree with your comment about play at these levels and making assumptions. It’s very difficult to categorise your opponents an gather reads at this level since you rarely see them more than once. And it’s so difficult to make general assumptions like you can at higher stakes since the range of opponent skill level is so wide, you never know if your opponent simply has no clue at all and is playing randomly or is a moderately skilled thinking player who has a specific range he plays in any given situation.

The videos on this site are fantastic quality and full of brilliant insight. it’s great when the pros play the micros and show us how they adapt to our opponents. Usually ABC, no fancy play etc. Is the general advice. But I would love some videos from some micro stakes grinders who have a lot of experience here in the micro minefield. Problem is the people who crush micros well enough to make training videos don’t stay at the micros for too long…

isaacjames
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March 30, 2011 - 9:16 pm
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bennymacca said:

just a side note – i think your raise size is too big preflop, something like 950 would have been better. 

 

I like a full 3X just on BvB cases as less seems to entice denefendning too often IMO.

bennymacca
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March 31, 2011 - 12:26 am
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yeah i suppose it depends on how active blinds are. if they are really aggro i might min raise to induce a 3bet and then shove on them with something like A8

isaacjames
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March 31, 2011 - 8:55 am
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Good points benny.

G0liath one last thing, for those times without Internet, take a look at harrington’s last book “harrington on online cash games 6max”. I know its not tourneys, but he does an excellent job on analysis on microstakes players and using hud to aid your decisions.

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