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February 18, 2013
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Full Tilt Velociraptor $3.30 Mul0ti Entry. Not near to the money as far as I can recall. Folded round to me in the SB with 20BBs and Villain (BB) has 22BBs. He's playing 18/18 over a small sample size (40 hands), no one has tried to blind steal him and his call PFR% is 0% (0/14) and his 3Bet is 25% (3/12) and 40% (2/5) from the blinds.
In the games I am playing very few Villains are folding to SB raises any more, they either flat or 3Bet/Shove, any they often raise a limp. I like to limp with hands that hit the flop well but with A8 which doesn't hit the flop very well and one player to act I figure I have to raise or shove here.
With his 3 bet % of 40% from the blinds I think a 2.5x raise is better than a shove, with the aim to get it all in if he 3Bets or call off if he shoves. Is there anyone who thinks there are better lines here or that my shove is OK? I think a shove against a calling station is preferable rather than against this villain.
And it just goes to show it always helps to check your hand histories, in game my HUD said Villain had a 0% 3Bet but I've just realised that's because I'm a dumbass and configured it to show Raise 3Bet % (i.e. 4Bet) instead of 3Bet %. 
Hope the hand history shows OK, I'm copying it straight from Pokertracker using the copy to forum option.
Cheers.
Full Tilt – 400/800 NL – Holdem – 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
MP: 28,596.00
MP+1: 4,675.00
LP: 37,294.00
CO: 31,995.00
BTN: 6,775.00
Hero (SB): 16,713.00
BB: 18,779.00
UTG: 7,351.00
UTG+1: 14,301.00
MP posts ante 100.00, MP+1 posts ante 100.00, LP posts ante 100.00, CO posts ante 100.00, BTN posts ante 100.00, Hero posts ante 100.00, BB posts ante 100.00, UTG posts ante 100.00, UTG+1 posts ante 100.00, Hero posts SB 400.00, BB posts BB 800.00
Pre Flop: (2100.00) Hero has 8
A
fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, [color=red]Hero raises to 16,613.00 and is all-in[/color], BB calls 15,813.00
Flop: (34126.00, 2 players) 4 3
4
Turn: (34126.00, 2 players) 7
River: (34126.00, 2 players) T
[spoil]Hero shows 8 A (One Pair, Fours) (Pre 29%, Flop 14%, Turn 7%)
BB shows Q Q (Two Pair, Queens and Fours) (Pre 71%, Flop 86%, Turn 93%)
BB wins 34,126.00
[/spoil]
November 4, 2013
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I usually think 20bb is too much to shove SB vs BB against most villains . . I could easily be wrong but I feel that against a tight villain you can still get folds by 2.5xing it. Against a laggy villain I would rather bet/call or maybe bet/fold depending on the situation.
I don’t feel like the initial pot is enough to shove for, considering that if we get called we are probably dominated most often.
July 12, 2013
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Unless you have some reason to think he's gonna be 3b stealing wide enough I wouldn't be shoving this hand. 20bbs is lots. I like just a standard open… Whatever that amount is. I don't worry too much about being exploited because I just don't think it happens often enough at these stakes. As some famous podcaster once said “You're supposed to get bluffed sometimes… And that's ok.”
February 18, 2013
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Thanks for responding, I agree shoving here doesn't seem great as when you get called you can be dominated and 20BB is a better stack to wait for a reshove spot, but there is 2100 already in the pot and if he calls say 18% of his hands it's still a +EV shove, we get folds 82% of the time, and when we get called we win 43% of the time against his calling range, and only have a 1 in 10 chance of going busto.
I think shoving is better than folding and limping, but I agree in this situation a 2.5x PFR may be preferable but with the combination of him having a perfect reshove stack (20BB) and a 3Bet % of 40% in the blinds you can't possibly raise fold here as it's just too nitty, and if you plug in the numbers it's obviously +EV to call if he reshoves, albeit you have a 47% chance of busto against his range.
I think the only way I could find a fold is if I think he's aware I have not been raising much from the blinds and he will give me credit for having a genuine hand here.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Shoving here is unexploitable. In other words, you could turn your cards face up and Villain simply wouldn't be dealt a better hand than yours often enough to make you regret shoving. That means you should be extremely reluctant to take any line that involves folding pre. I think your options are open shove, raise-shove or raise-call, or limp-shove/limp-call. I actually think your hand is strong enough to try to induce by limping or making a small open raise. I mean, V is never folding better to a shove anyway, so you might as well try to induce shoves from weaker hands, or even better induce him to 3bet-fold. But most importantly, just don't expect to fold pre with an Ace and 20BBs and only one player behind you.
November 4, 2013
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Glad Andrew posted that – surprised none of us thought of mentioning the limp lines because they seem pretty good.
It’s good to hear that 3bet folding is not a good option because I think I still have that possobility as a leak.
Nice thread AI29
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