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this is in the SCOOP 27 low
i think flying smile is a solid tourney reg (could be wrong i dont play many)
by the time it gets to river i just dont think many people take this line as a bluff, what do you guys think about folding here
Poker Stars $25+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t75/t150 Blinds + t20 – 6 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
BSQBABE (SB): BB = 103.6, t15545
Hero (BB): BB = 65.2, t9780
Flying Smile (UTG): BB = 46.7, t7010
MaxHam (MP): BB = 92.0, t13798
Jupiter VI (CO): BB = 108.5, t16281
Mashkazavrrr (BTN): BB = 83.3, t12496
Pre Flop: (t345) Hero is BB with J
J
Flying Smile raises to t300, 4 folds, Hero calls t150
Flop: (t795) T
T 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Flying Smile checks
Turn: (t795) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Flying Smile bets t425, Hero calls t425
River: (t1645) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Flying Smile bets t995
i wouldnt fold here, we get a good prize, our hand has just to be good about 40% of the time, and i think thats realistic.
imo he could esily take this line with underpairs
i think most his underpairs are c betting flop majority of the time…same with random broadway cards…i feel like a check is usually Tx, or an overpair checking for pot control on what is a pretty good board for his hand
and i think most bluffs that check flop and rando stab turn are giving up on this complete brick river
I think I play it the same except check/call river. Your line looks really weak and I don't think he ever expects you to have JJ here. Yeah he could've played KK/AA this way but I don't think there really are hardly any 10x's in his range. Unless I have a solid read on villain I'll almost always call river here.
October 6, 2010
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given you flatted pre i think there are definitely lots of mid pairs in your range, so if villain has a T i would expect him to fire flop as no pair is going to fold to a single bullet on that board. same goes for overpairs really.
imo this line from villain looks like he is trying to get you to fold a mid pair, he looks super weak imo
having said that, it becomes a great line if you are a reg playing against other regs because it looks so weak, so if he also knows you this could be pretty strong but im not sure about it.
as others have said, if there was a tourney to take higher variance spots in order to build your stack this might be the one too.
interesting spot though
ya like i said i just dont get what hes ever bluffing with here, being a reg and solid player he knows how bad his line looks imo, so i just dont see how its ever a bluff, all his bluffs bet the flop here i think, i really just think this line is so weak it can never be a bluff….
as hand goes i tanked on river and didnt want to call but i talked myself into it because of similar reasons to you guys, and he has 222…
i think benny is right tho this spot is more interesting that people are giving credit for,
and i think we rarely see a bluff, and lower pairs are always checking back as they have so much showdown value and dont want to get check raised on river, so i just dont think we are ever really beating anything that he can be betting in this spot after checking flop, (knowing hes a solid thinking player)
October 6, 2010
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turned sets are just so disguised, you can basically never put someone on that hand
in terms of this as a bluff line, rando broadways worse than ace high i think could do this, especially something like QJ which might have gone for a check raise as a semi-bluff
ya hes in position so he def wasnt tryin to check raise, thatd be a wild move 😉
no so much worried about his specific hand just the fact i was curious how often people turn up with bluffs here V turning up with value hands, i think the frequency is weighted towards value hands
October 6, 2010
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shawnivey said:
ya hes in position so he def wasnt tryin to check raise, thatd be a wild move 😉
no so much worried about his specific hand just the fact i was curious how often people turn up with bluffs here V turning up with value hands, i think the frequency is weighted towards value hands
im such a tard sometimes. pretty sure i read it correctly first time around though 🙁
JLUDEOBV said:
I think I play it the same except check/call river. Your line looks really weak and I don't think he ever expects you to have JJ here. Yeah he could've played KK/AA this way but I don't think there really are hardly any 10x's in his range. Unless I have a solid read on villain I'll almost always call river here.
^^ all of this
^^^ super useful post thanks for your insight
he doesnt have many hands in his range at all by the time he bets river, not saying they are AA dn KK but what hands is he taking this line with jjf, please let me know, what terrible hand he would ever try to turn into a bluff in this spot
shawnivey said:
^^^ super useful post thanks for your insight
he doesnt have many hands in his range at all by the time he bets river, not saying they are AA dn KK but what hands is he taking this line with jjf, please let me know, what terrible hand he would ever try to turn into a bluff in this spot
You're a funny guy, Shawn. Yeah, I can see it from both sides. He could have 99, of AA, KK, or QQ here(pretty consistent with his line). Dont think its a total bluff here(pot-controlling with overpair seems pretty standard here this early(from villian), or he thinks he is squeezing value with other pairs. So nothing wrong with folding here this early without a confirmed read on villain. So meh, i'm 50/50 with c/f and c/c river. How would you rate it shawn? +2 for a fold, +1, or 0 points for a c/c, & -23 pts for a c/r shove? 
lol jff just annoying when all you write is +1 and its 4 post later already sorry, i think fold is best vs comp player, call is best vs fish…..
and i honestly dont hate raising too much, but you have to be sure villian isnt stationy and will fold out some of his big hands
so i guess everyone is calling here most the time without reads? thanks again for the help
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