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Quick sanity check: Can I ever get away from the second nut flush here?
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Carlos
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September 19, 2013 - 12:46 pm
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Merge Network $15K Gtd – [Deep] No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t20.00/t40.00 Blinds – 8 players – View hand 2310106
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: t4960.00   124 BBs
BB: t5000.00   125 BBs
UTG: t5120.00   128 BBs
UTG+1: t5000.00   125 BBs
MP1: t5000.00   125 BBs
MP2: t5040.00   126 BBs
CO: t4940.00   123.50 BBs
Hero (BTN): t4940.00   123.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN with J club K heart
2 folds, [color=red]MP1 raises to t120.00[/color], MP2 calls t120, 1 fold, Hero calls t120, SB calls t100, BB calls t80

Flop: (t600) 3 heart T heart Q heart [color=#336633](5 players)[/color]
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, [color=red]Hero bets t300.00[/color], SB folds, BB calls t300, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t300

Turn: (t1500) 9 heart [color=#336633](3 players)[/color]
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: (t1500) 2 spade [color=#336633](3 players)[/color]
[color=red]BB bets t1000.00[/color], MP2 folds, Hero calls t1000

 

I called pre because the original raiser was pretty bad.

 

BB is a good reg. Am I ever good on this river?

FatHarryPotter
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September 19, 2013 - 4:01 pm
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As played I'd like to say yeah but in game I don't think I would cry, hover over fold, then click call.frown

NoirDesir87
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September 19, 2013 - 5:13 pm
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If it's value you are probably crushed, I don't think he is VBing that big with the J heart, so the question is “Does he have a bluff range in that spot?”

 

When he calls that flop I think his range is Qx, pair + flush draw (somethink like TJh, JJh (might 3bet pre)) and Aheartx, I don't think he is calling with a hand like ATo, TJo, 89o… even KJo is folding flop imo… So unless he is capable of turning Qx into a bluff (I don't think he is vs 2 players on that board) the only part of his range betting here is Axheart so I think it's a fold.

 

Might be interisting to know if he is raising the Aheart flop but I think most players are just calling so yes I think we can fold. But maybe I'm a bit result oriented and not sure at all I would fold that in game ^^

shutEMdown
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September 19, 2013 - 8:09 pm
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its a nutty river bet…Jh either bluff catch or bet less to get value from smaller h. i fold against the tighter merge reg but cant see myself finding the fold button against the merge spew….but still expect to rarely be good.

FkCoolers
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September 22, 2013 - 1:48 pm
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I think BB could turn some hands into bluffs to get a fold from a low to medium heart. 

He should be doing this once in a while, anyway, or he's playing really unbalanced in this spot. 

CCuster 911
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September 22, 2013 - 5:23 pm
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*3rd nut flush   😉

 

But yea this is not  a fun spot.  I think if I dont expect bluffs I value bet turn(bluffs as a gernal turn in both c/r turn and betting river).  This allows us to control the size, and also allows people chasing boats to make some lol bad calls.

 

As played since hes a reg I fold, especailyl if he knows your a reg.  I just dont see many people doing anything other than bluff catching the Jh here, and your range isnt capped so he shouldnt really be bluffing ever.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

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Carlos
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September 22, 2013 - 11:38 pm
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CCuster 911 said:

*3rd nut flush   😉

 

But yea this is not  a fun spot.  I think if I dont expect bluffs I value bet turn(bluffs as a gernal turn in both c/r turn and betting river).  This allows us to control the size, and also allows people chasing boats to make some lol bad calls.

 

As played since hes a reg I fold, especailyl if he knows your a reg.  I just dont see many people doing anything other than bluff catching the Jh here, and your range isnt capped so he shouldnt really be bluffing ever.

Ha. I dont consider straight flushes flushes.

 

If you bet the turn, are you calling a check raise and folding to a river bet or folding to the turn check raise?

 

I dont think I would have the discipline to fold to a turn check raise, so I checked back so that I can see a showdown for roughly the same price as betting the turn.

CCuster 911
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September 23, 2013 - 2:04 am
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It truly depnds on your thoughts on whether or not you expect him to bluff.  I think people are more likely to bluff the river(making me more likely to call relatively speaking) then bluff as a c/r on turn(for a number of reasons, one being its cheaper to bluff river), but if I expect him to bluff a lot I probably elect to check turn and bluff catch river and bomb it if checked too.  If I dont expect him to bluff a lot, I think we get better value betting turn(two pairs/sets trying to boat is main value source).

 

Another thing that seems silly but isnt entirely, is that you can get 3 streets of value and check turn.  In some worlds the Ah is the next card, meaning you have the effective nuts, but also increasing your value against Jh as well as 8h.

 

My go-to here is to deicde his bluff frequency and agasint low bluffers I bet turn, against mid bluffers I check(good regs who can throw in bluffs in this spot are dangerous), and against complete aggro fish I just bet/call down.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

florianm1
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September 24, 2013 - 5:56 pm
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pre i might consider 3betting to isolate vs the fish. we have  a good player in the blinds and a hand that does not play very well post flop. the only thing that speaks for a flat is we are IP.

flop bet i like. turn i might consider betting again. depends on villain tendency c/r draws on flop.

 

i quickly put villains preflop range into flopzilla.

 

i d say after all checked back turn he can assume that 3rd. if he bets all his 3rd nut flush that big which seems reasonable then we loos are good in 35% of the time and need to be good in 40% of the time.

 

so i would say fold but in game i might call

 

cheers

rivermen123

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September 25, 2013 - 4:18 pm
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Flop is the street I'm looking at the closest here…it seems quite likely that you're up against the Ah when you get two callers on this flop in a five-way pot. That doesn't really answer your questions very well, and I doubt I fold river either (especially after turn is checked through), but it's tough to imagine the Ah not being out there when you go to the turn 3 ways.

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