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September 14, 2014
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Hey
Just a questiong regarding 3-betting.
Say for example the effective stacks are 20bb , can hero ever 3-bet/f as a bluff?
I was reading a book not long ago called raisers edge which is by lee nelson (australian pro) , basically they've got a section regarding playing different stack sizes and it says how when you've got a stack thats shallow you shouldnt 3-bet/fold because you'll be getting great odds to call a 4-bet shove. Where as if stacks are like 30bb then you've got more to 3-bet fold , you made decide to 3-bet lets say 2.5bb the intial raiser and if v 4-bet shoves you can easily fold in that situation.
why i ask this question is because in jace's 3-bet video he showed an example where he woud 3-bet fold with shallow stacks…..so yeah i'm just trying to find out if thats optimal?
maybe he's got reads that v raise/fold almost always so maybe he can get away with 3-bet folding as a bluff (@20bb effective) but for most part i think when your around that stack size, you really want to preserve your stack so when u do 3-bet shove you've got more fold equity.
cheers!
August 4, 2014
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Hey man,
This is actually a very interesting subject. It is such a dilemma and takes some discipline to do, but it is in my arsenal for certain scenarios.
Lets say I am on the button and it folds to me and I have around 20bbs. And lets say I have like K5o, suited connectors etc, I will make it 2.25 if 1-players behind me are not very active
2-they have mid sized stacks where they are not in a rush to put it in, nor they have the luxury to flat everything.
Most of the time it will go through. I am giving myself a range in case I get flatted and have to play the hand. This will help keep our stack if we can do this once every 2 orbits, until we have a real hand to get it in.
September 14, 2014
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Yeah i see what you're saying , against good players though if they are on the big blind, it's likely they call a raise with a big part of their range, since they'l be getting good odds to call.
I think against weaker players this is good , it's unlikely they resteal shove and its unlikely they call so it makes stealing more profitable for us.
August 4, 2014
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I agree that better players will retaliate more than the weak ones, but there is one catch.
A good player will most of the time realize your stack size and base your actions on that just like you do. For that kind of player, your 2.25x raise will look like an induce more often than not and he will intentionally stay out of your way, especially if you havent played too loose and took advantage too much.
At least these are what I observed 🙂
September 14, 2014
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Awsome! 🙂
Well usually I mini raise pre in the mid-late stages, so thats pretty much 2bb.
so say the blinds are like 1/2k i'd make it 4k.
if we were going to make it 2.25 x that would be 4225 , right?
August 4, 2014
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That would be 4500. To be more exact, I am betting 4444, saving myself a bit extra chips while achieving the same thing.
But, I observed there is a difference in simply 2xing it and making it something like 4444 if its 1/2k.
Towards the end game, I use min raise, but mostly a little over again like 2.1x. I mean I guess this is somewhat of a preferance and depends on table and network dynamics.
however, the most important thing I realized was to make it consistent as much as you can. When you put in the same raises, there is no way they can put you on a certain range of hands. For ex: I play pocket 22's almost the same way as pocket AA if I am opening the pot.
Also, I realized how much money I was betting preflop and on cbetting. It is very crucial for certain tournament structures where blinds start from 10/20 with 10-12 min intervals and you have around 3k stack.
Dont know if you are in New Jersey but Party Poker nightly 5k is a perfect example.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Let’s say there are 2.5BB in the pot from blinds and antes, and V min-raises, and you are on the button. So there is 4.5 BB in the pot and you are thinking about raising to 4.5BB and folding to a shove. If V always shoves or folds, then he has to shove nearly half of the hands he’s opening to make this unprofitable for you (there is also a risk that one of the blinds will wake up with a hand to play back at you). When he shoves, you’ll be faced with calling 15.5BB to win 27BB. You’d need better than 36% equity to make that call.
I’m going to leave it to you to do the math on whether there exist situations where 3-bet-folding would be better than either folding (ie cases where Villain will fold often enough to show an immediate profit) or 3-bet-calling (ie Villain will fold often plus you’ll have odds to call if he shoves). When counting his combos, be sure to take into consideration blockers you may hold. In other words, this play may be profitable with A2o but not with 72o.
Assume an opening range and a jamming range for Villain. Look at whether his jamming range is close to half of his opening range. Then look at the equity that various hands you might 3-bet would have against his jamming range. If you post your work here, I’ll give you more feedback on it.
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