View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
QTs in hijack, bluff the flop, catch the turn, live tournament
navinbits
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
April 30, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
November 10, 2015 - 2:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Looking at the title, you pros will just shut your browser tabs saying “This is an easy fold. Why is this bugger getting into dicey situations with this hand?” But I will still continue smile

$180 freeze out tournament. 8k chips to start, 20 min levels.

80/120 remaining. Blinds 200-400-50

Hero (HJ; 16k): QheartTheart Raise to 1200
Villain(CO; 17k): Almost immediately raise to 2400

Everyone else fold. Hero calls. Pot: 5850

Flop: Adiamond Tclub 9heart 
Hero checks, villain bets 2400, hero calls.

Turn: Qspade  (Pot: 10650)
Hero checks, Villain all-in for ~12k, hero calls.

 

I have shown down only good hands in this tournament so far and have a good image. Villain is a 35-40 year old guy who has recently moved to the table and hasn’t been way out of line. I raise to take down blinds and antes but not averse with playing a pot. When villain instantly re-raises to 2400, I try to put him on the top 4% hands, but I discounted AA from it since if he had AA, he would have at least thought about it for 10 seconds and made a raise. Also, I have seen older guys do a straight 2x 3-bet with AA and never seen younger people do this. So, according to me, his range is AJs+, JJ+, AQo, some KQs. OTF, when he bets, I clearly thought he couldn’t have AA and I check-called to represent the A so that he will shut down betting in future streets. 

The turn card is the 2nd best card I could have there (aside from a 10) and also a little scary as AQ and QQ can now be confident of their hand if I was representing an A on the flop. When he shoved the turn, I literally told him I can’t put him on AA or a 2-pair and called off my chips. He had AKo and he caught the J on the river to make a straight and bust me out.

 

Questions:
Apart from folding pre, what else should I have done right in this hand? Is calling the flop as a bluff representing the ace, a good strategy? If I had a big ace, I would have 4-bet pre. Is my call pre-flop an indication of weakness?

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
November 10, 2015 - 4:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

“Looking at the title, you pros will just shut your browser tabs saying “This is an easy fold. Why is this bugger getting into dicey situations with this hand?””

That’s not fair, I love getting into dicey spots with marginal hands!

“I raise to take down blinds and antes”

That’s not a thing you can do. I mean, you can’t just say, “I’d like to take down this pot,” and then do it. The value of any pre-flop raise you make is going to be some combination of the fold equity (what you win when no one calls) and its expected value when called or three-bet. I’m not taking issue with your raise, I think it’s a clear open with this hand from this position, in no small part because the hand will play well when called and can even peal a small 3b like this one. I would, however, make a smaller open. You may not want to raise the minimum, but I think anything over 1000 is sub-optimal unless the table is super-loose.

“I check-called to represent the A so that he will shut down betting in future streets.”

Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. It’s OK/correct for you to have a range that calls once and folds to further action unless it improves, and given the price you’re getting, this is a fine hand to put in that range even if Villain will have a bluffing range on the next street. I wouldn’t say that you’re calling as a bluff, and I wouldn’t recommend getting aggressive unimproved in attempt to bluff him off of KK or anything. You have a shred of showdown value, you have a chance of improving, and you’re getting a good price to call. It’s fine.

“If I had a big ace, I would have 4-bet pre.”

Really? With AQ/AJ/AT? I wouldn’t recommend it.

Why do you think you should have folded this hand pre-flop?

I’m not sure if you mean to ask about the turn, but it’s an easy check-call precisely because Villain can have AK. I don’t see why he can’t have two pair, but just because he could doesn’t make your call bad.

PS What is “a good image”?

navinbits
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
April 30, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
November 10, 2015 - 5:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Andrew,

I will definitely not 4-bet with AT.. AJ depends on my opponent. If AJs, I might 4-bet 1 in 10 times or so to balance my 4-bet range. AQs is more like 6-7 out of 10. 

Folding this hand preflop is an idea I always get and munch over when I see bigdog’s videos in TPE where he tries to play his big hands fast and doesn’t mind letting go of a hand like this. 

Good to see that this hand is a standard open from this position. I was always under the impression that to call a 3-bet with this hand, I have to be sure from behavioral tells that some monsters can be excluded from the range, and also that the 3-bet size is not big. Good to know you are with me on calling the 3-bet.

I am not sure how you say I am getting good odds to call on the flop, assuming I put villain on the top 4% hands. To improve against an A or KK, I have 5 outs (3 Q’s and 2 T’s) and I need 4:1 on a call, but I get about 3 or 3.5 to 1. I might even be drawing thin or dead to a 2-pair. I do agree that there is no reason or logic behind raising the flop to try and get KK to fold. if someone does that to me when I hold KK, I will snap call. 

Oh, and as for the “good image”, I meant that people aren’t going to shove in my face with QJo when I make a raise wink

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
November 10, 2015 - 10:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

If you really think V’s range is that tight, I guess it’s a flop fold, but I’d question how certain you are that it’s that tight, and also whether V would bet hands like KK or QQ (or AA, for that matter).

“Might even be drawing dead” is already factored into the price you’re getting. You don’t need to consider it as a separate argument for folding.

What’s the value in 4betting AQ if you think V’s 3bet range is that tight?

As for calling the 3bet, you have to pay attention to the price you’re getting (which you did here). You can’t just create categories of hands that call 3bets and hands that fold to 3bets – it has to depend on the size of the 3bet, the 3better’s likely range, etc. But with the right price and/or if his range is wide enough, excluding some monsters from his range is not a prerequisite.

Why is it good that people aren’t jamming QJ over your raise?

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
74 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1